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GA Agenda

JV Jov Ver Public Seen by 328

Three initial points are to be decided on the GA of October 22nd.

  1. We need a decision on moving piratelab.be towards pirateparty.be / partipirate.be / piratenpartij.be. This is a decision only, as the complete project has been developed in a transparent way since July 2nd. A lot of effort has already been put in by various pirates. All pirates have been kept up to date of proceedings on BPU (Belgian Pirates United) and have been informed about the labs which have been held about it. One final lab is scheduled for September 24th, in Mechelen's Expression bar. All with comments or questions are welcome there. Later comments will not be taken into account towards development of the site. Thanks to the Website Squad for all the hard work already.
  2. We need a decision on allowing a national vzw / asbl / non-profit to be installed. Preparation work has been going on since beginning of August. Events were always posted in BPU. Current text is on Google Docs. That text will be finalized Saturday September 10th. As mentioned in the Google Docs' articles of foundation of the vzw / asbl / non-profit, it is an independent organ with a legal and servicing function. Comments about the text are allowed until October 1st (as Saturday 10/09) is too close to react.
  3. We need a decision on allowing said vzw / asbl / non-profit to govern funds and membership database as a tool for pirates to access. The list will clearly not be public, but will serve as a basis for further organisation towards upcoming elections.

Further topics for the GA can be sent to [email protected] before October 1st.


BTW - first time I use Loomio - is this correct?

V

Vincent Wed 7 Sep 2016 7:40PM

Hi, thank you for this.
Technically it's correct, but the agenda can change a lot. I suggest to simply add a link to the wiki page instead of writing it down on Loomio: http://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php/Pirate_Assembly_Fall_2016

Unless you want to edit it on a regular basis? Even then, MediaWiki has better tracking options.

JV

Jov Ver Wed 7 Sep 2016 9:38PM

Yes - that's what I heard as well and that is a genuine "danger" to the difference to society we need to bring - the main reason we exist I suppose and at least the main reason I am trying to be helpful here.

From what I heard is that, that "danger" is that decisions, which are needed, are stalled because of latent "pirates" which pop up out of nowhere with questions and remarks about the above topics. My take is to tell them: "look, you had enough possibilities, literally for months, to be involved and steer the outcomes. We gave you deadlines to react to the topics. You missed them." That is why we need to include these deadlines...

J

Josse Wed 7 Sep 2016 7:44PM

I would also put the agenda of the GA on the piratelab of the 24th. It would be good to check vzw/asbl and context at least briefly there too.

CC

Christophe Cop Thu 8 Sep 2016 8:39AM

The way to advance in a GA is having short proposals.
1) do we need a vzw & do we want one?
2) (if 1 = Yes) Start to vote on the separate entities on the statutes.
For each entity, a person is allowed to have a comment during the GA (comment is not a speech for 5 or more minutes, it is crisp and short)
Then, there is the voting.

As such, there are last minute options to steer a vote, but you can't change the proposals as such anymore.

If, due to enough downvotes, the statutes are not legal or consistent anymore, then they should be re-written and voted on a next GA. This will happen if they are outrageous. So if you think a point risks a downvote, have an alternative ready that can be voted if the first one does not pass.

Indeed, we all have plenty of time to prepare, but not everybody will, so better take it into account than just 'ban' their opinion because they portray typical human behavior.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Thu 8 Sep 2016 9:17AM

It's not clear to me, which statutes do you refer to? The current PPBe statutes? Or the statutes of the future asbl/vzw?

CC

Christophe Cop Thu 8 Sep 2016 9:34AM

In this case the VZW/Asbl

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Thu 8 Sep 2016 10:29AM

This is in contradiction what Pat Seynaeve is stating .....

CC

Christophe Cop Thu 8 Sep 2016 12:13PM

Ah, ok.
Well, for Pbe atatutes, I think the same way of working is good (it's how we made those statutes in the first place).
Though I also suggest that a random 10 statutes points should be up for vote to 'leave out' again... As we will end up with a growing body of rules, and we should have a way to counter that.

V

Vincent Thu 8 Sep 2016 12:27PM

Interesting, so every article of the statutes would expire at some point and would need to be reapproved? Maybe we could make some
"constitutional rules" that don't expire this way?

That reminds me of that game: Nomic (The Paradox of Self-Amendment)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic with its mutable and immutable rules.
I'd love to continue this discussion on a dedicated thread.

JV

Jov Ver Thu 8 Sep 2016 12:56PM

I also disagree with that approach I am sorry to say. The statutes (actually - it's "articles" in English) are there. We have been discussing them and we still are discussing them. If you or anyone, any pirate, has anything to say about them, speak up now, so we can adapt them prior to the GA and / or explain the individual(s?) what really is meant there.

Next meeting is Saturday after last Sunday's. We'll certainly address asbl again during the Pirate Lab September 24th. Everybody has time until October to read them. So, enough possibilities to pop questions. If people wait until the GA to do so, I don't think they are very appreciative of the time others have invested in trying to come to common understandings on said articles.

And that's precisely what these meetings are about huh? Common understanding, because, as far as I can judge it (and I have been present at ALL meetings about them since August), all attendees are already aligned in the vision / idea / concept behind the necessity of installing a vzw / asbl. It just sometimes seems that... pirates don't trust each other a whole lot. And I think: look, we can be distrustful of society around us the complete forsaken day, but when among pirates, give up that distrust. We are all in it for the same good goal. Or aren't we?

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