Kiez Placement

RP Randy Pence Public Seen by 358

The map in it's current state is final with the exception of: when everyone agrees to change a certain position. So if for example Süßkiez wants to change location with Just Being and they are both fine with that + Kinderkiez & other kieze agree and are fine with that + no issue for power, then yes, we can change locations. So feel free to take up those discussions here. From an overview POV, the map as it currently is right now, is the best possible solution we could find. But nobody is perfect... So if you have suggestions, feel free to put them here and everyone can chime in.

I need more space for camping?
It is impossible to draw on the map spots dedicated to little tents, that are spread out all over the site. Consider the spot you are given on the map as where your core activities take place. Tenting needs to be found person by person, tent by tent, either within that area, or just going around and spotting where one can put their tent that is not part of a Kiez's core area.

KBORG does not take responsibility for you causing a clash with your neighbors. Don't be an ass and go perimeter off hundreds of square meters for your tents that are outside of your core area.

we try to find freecamping areas that will not clash with camps.


Randy Pence Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:03PM

Hey y'all, some changes have been made as we decided to make a quiet viertel and shift some sound camps around as we lock in placement. Apologizes for the abruptness, but we hope that this will make for a better experience for everyone


Henrik Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:12PM

Well, since Just Being is a quiet camp with chill music at "Zimmerlautstärke" we want like to stay where we originally planned to be. We made arrangements for workshops and building material that will only work there because of the platform, the fireplace (how perfect is a fireplace for a hippie camp?!) and the construction wagon. (Btw: I'm referring to the area where Süßkiez ist placed according to the update)


waldo Tue 24 Apr 2018 4:15PM

Thanks for the response Henrik! Site planning is very hard and sometimes trade-offs need to be made. Unfortunately the location where Just Being wanted to be did not work any longer because sound needs to travel east. Orientating on Kinderkiez, we made the whole west side relatively quiet and more loud camps more to the east.

We are aware that this implies certain changes in the way you set up your camp, which is why we wanted to take this decision as early as possible, still before Burning Pig. The new spot of Just being is absolutely wonderful: completely flat, grassy, between trees, right next to some really cool Kieze!

Happy to work with you to make it work.


Anna Schwarz Wed 25 Apr 2018 1:32PM

I understand that Kieze are still registering and making it hard to decide about the best placement for everyone.
We have been planning for a while now and also got more concrete about the structures we are going to build. In fact Henrik spent a good amount of time looking into and getting materials to build something to cover that stage area for the workshops we want to bring & gift to the Burn. I guess you can imagine his frustration with the short term decision of re-placing us as a camp now. To be honest I have a hard time atm motivating my crew and make sure that stuff is gettting done. Decision like moving us around adds onto this so I guess you can also understand my frustration with that.
So I really want to understand the reasons behind this decision and if there is anything we could do to reverse it. Cause sound issues were there before. We are not an entirely silent camp and also thought about putting our tents somewhere where there is more space and just to have our structures in the dedicated area. So a bit of sound probably wouldn’t be too bad.
Henrik and the ones who were already informed and who have been to the site are not happy with the new location. I understand that it is quite impossible for you to make everyone happy but I also do understand that we are one of the bigger Kieze with more than 40 members and 30 more who would like the camp - so I can confidently say there is a major interest in the camp to exist and to be accessible for others wanting to join us.

Please let me know if there is any way I can support you with finding a better solution to this. Cause even though we are before Burning Pig - it is not even 2 months left and I do consider this change as a rather short term decision.


Randy Pence Wed 25 Apr 2018 2:10PM

For starters, what is wrong with the new location? It is flat, and the hilliness of the previous location had been an issue in terms of finding tent space for everyone. The new location removes any possibility of a neighboring kiez interrupting a workshop with some boom boom music and does not restrict in utilizing new materials or building a stage.

It was supposed to be considered a compliment that Just Being would anchor the new quieter viertel. As a returning kiez with well produced ideas, Area 51 thought that your presence in the new location would ensure that region would remain interesting with fewer kieze placed there. While it homogenizes the region, it could be possible for JB to use the entire section below the road and move Gingeridoo across the road.

Due to the challenges of the former quarry terrain, there will probably be a number of various kiez residents not camping directly with their kiez. A kiez expanding almost 100 percent in size is great for participation and inclusion, but must be seen as almost impossible to guarantee room as other kieze might have similar growth desires, but we cannot accommodate potential growth in every placement. Simply setting up structures and everyone camping elsewhere sounds less like a burn and more like a centralized festival like Fusion.

I hope this shows some of the reasoning and inspires confidence in the new location


waldo Wed 25 Apr 2018 3:21PM

I totally understand you Anna. It is difficult to deal with changing requirements. However, we can commit to that location now. I also want to re-iterate what Randy just said: the new location is really really beautiful and could work perfectly for Just Being.

The main reason for the move of Just Being away from a more north-central position, has been that Kinderkiez needed to go really quiet, up in the north west corner because of sound concerns. The previous understanding was that sound needed to travel south-East, and now we know it needs to travel east. That caused Kinderkiez to no longer be able to be in the east. This in turn, caused some of the already placed Kieze in the west to no longer be a viable option there, and needed to be placed further away from Kinderkiez.

The only big, more quiet Kiez, is Just Being. We paired that up with 2 super interesting Kieze (one of them a kitchen kiez) to create an attractive chill atmosphere up in the north-west corner. We believe that will create a very interesting space during the day and early evening. It is the biggest flat space there is (the containers that were there on previous site visits will no longer be there) and would be 75% Just Being.

@bandit maybe you can add something here in terms of sound zones?


Bandit (Independence lead) Wed 2 May 2018 1:23PM

Sure thing and sorry to chime in so late guys!
The main problem we had last year was proximity to sound and not being able to escape from it at all on the site. Kinder was in a relatively quiet (from a WM site perspective) corner, but it was still loud and thumpy, and very difficult to escape.
Kinderkiez IS the one of the main reasons for this shuffle, but also we have had more space open up too us which means more land area to place camps.

We got A LOT, and I do mean a lot, of feedback on the levels of noise about last year's event, and wanted to emulate sound zone in much the same way the big Nevada burn does in making loud camps group together, while putting quiet and silent areas for relaxed and family camping away from these zones. We have an opportunity with the Freiland site to create something very similar, while working with the directional sound from larger camps. The last thing we want is to kill the party... but the party can't happen everywhere!!

It's never going to be completely quiet but we can work with the landscape to create quiet pockets. We also have villages very close to us, which meant placing sound camps up in the top northwest corner would have more than likely resulted in very pissed off surrounding villages, and added to the lack of ability to escape and chill away from thumping tech beats. More than anything we want a good working relationship with these villages in the future, and need to follow the guidance from Freiland about where to place and point sound. This has resulted in a reshuffle but let's all walk around the site keeping in mind that different Kiez have different requirements when it comes to level of noise, and see how we can collaborate to make the best of this for everyone.

Lastly we all need to hiFive Randy and Waldo as they are doing their best with changing requirements for us all.


Alex Cuthbertson Wed 25 Apr 2018 5:11PM

For what little it's worth, we had the most recent site visit, and everyone on the visit was in conclusion that JB's new location is one of the best spots on the Gelände (we would like to be there as well hehe, it's gorgeous).
Anyways, you can see for yourselves at burning pig ;) that's just two cents that might help calm some of the frustration (which I can relate to).


Alex Cuthbertson Wed 25 Apr 2018 5:57PM

On a second point. The areas south of Flow Camp's position (south and south-West of the Eastern lake) is virtually uncampable, expect for the very top of the hill. We're already at a very tight squeeze in utilizing that space for our own camp (we have the only flat area in the entire field, and need every centimeter). That's just a heads up, don't place any kieze or freecamping there until you can personally review the location at burning pig. It could end up getting messier.

Again, it's just a heads up ;)


waldo Wed 25 Apr 2018 9:30PM

we can extend the flow camp camping area over there a bit, no prob. lets evaluate at burning pig.

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