Kiez Placement

@waldo @bandit @randypence Madda will be able to help best as she was at the Pig. I hope it works out. Thanks everyone!

So maybe like this is clearer. The proportions are not perfect on the map but at least you all understand.

@bandit and @magamadda I adjusted the final map to reflect the learnings of this weekend, is it correct according to you? If incorrect: please do not edit the map, but just let me know what needs to change - http://bit.ly/2qVmBkM

Thanks for your help! @waldo I sent you a private message on FB with a mini correction: Kids Kiez is bigger and a bit more down the road and 🍋⛺️ also a bit bigger, but basically that’s correct. Thanks!!

@bandit This is apparently what Lemon Kiez agreed with Suska (sent by Magda). Is that ok for you? I had the impression that this was underwater though...

it's unworkable in its current form... but thats ok, we'll figure something out :-)
I updated the campable space for lemon and kinder on the final map, based on what we walked out on our wading mission, and added an underwater layer.

this is partially underwater, and this area is too small for a 40 body kiez with a footprint of 650m2. what's camp-able on the space there is dramatically smaller due to hills.
Look this is only going to come to a head IF the site doesn't dry out.

650m2 seems a bit large Amber. Please orientate on 4-5m2 per person. So that means 300-350- max 400 m2 for the whole kiez.

I agree that 650m2 seems rather large for 40 people, but 4-5m2 per person seems extremely low to me. One person laying down flat on their back takes up about 2x1m, whatever tent or shelter above them needs to extend beyond that to keep them out of the rain etc., and they need a bit of room to store all of their stuff they need to survive for many days. That alone is easily 4m2, and that leaves no room for walking between tents, no room for a shared kitchen or other structure, and no room for any public space for art, workshops, dance floor etc.

Might be good for this year's site planner & placement lead (@ancka ) to evaluate a little bit how much actual space was occupied. My impression is that we will have loads of empty space all throughout the site.

Does that mean that Kieze are allowed to take over empty space that's outside of their designated area to setup workshop areas, etc.?

I don't know. For Süßkiez I would say no, since you guys are so big alraedy. But I want to step outside of this process again and leave it to randy (site planning) and Ancka (site placement) again. Exact process will be discussed here: https://www.loomio.org/d/2c69upPG/site-placement-planning-kborg

@magamadda it might be a good idea for you guys to do an area estimate? Suska made us a measurement calculation tool that we would be happy to share with you... but I can tell you now that what you've indicted here take over half of the site that kinder can access.
:-( I know this is an unhappy situation, but we can work through it, and come out with something should worst come to the worst.

@bandit OK As I said what I have marked it´s just an imprecise area. Let me do that during lunch break. and I will get back to you. Suska said the guy from Freiland said the water will not be there in a couple of weeks. We will fit in, we are not so many.

@bandit @waldo @dylanwarren We need 120-140 square meters, which is exactly the area I marked. Less would be a little bit too little <3

Hey! I would love the area calculation tool if possible to help us plan the site! <3 @bandit

@waldo - I've noticed that the free camping zone has shrunk. What is the policy re: use of that space? May a camp member choose to be there even if they technically belong to a camp? Is it large enough to accommodate?

Thank you! Alina.

I would prefer not to, since freecampers do need space as well. If we take that space from them, you can also not blame them for camping inside "your" area. to be discussed with @ancka

Free camping in general has not really been allocated much. The previous marked region now turning into lemon/kinder was really just a placemarker in case no other camps emerged. As it currently stands, 455 participants are placed in a kiez. There are what, 700 or so tickets in total? 150 people still need a place to build their tents. There is ample space north east of gate, but it is still outside of the gate. At the southern boundary, there is some space between the lakes, albeit often in hilly terrain. There is also space on and around the ridge north of hte road above Underworld

at the same time, the site placement lead and gate, will need to point freecampers to where they CAN camp. In order to avoid freecampers thus setting up their tent in "Kieze areas", it would be wise to demarcate clearly where the freecampers can go.

definitely, although it would be cool to be able to print at least some of the designated freekiezing spots in advance. Do we want freecamping to occur outside the gate?

One small argument here would be that Wonderers (Rangers) will NOT be doing their strolls outside Gate, so that makes the whole thing a bit more complicated, as many of the freecampers are likely to be virgins and not so aware of things like LNT and so on. I would advice against it.

this would imply that gate should move, as we probably do not have enough space for free campers elsewhere without tents springing up in places they shouldnt

@pusch020@gmail.com I put a proposal on the map for "Das Schmauseschloss" ==> @randypence could you doublecheck? @whitney: the only downside of that spot it that it is a bit unflat and would need some work finding the best spot. Also, best to reserve some time to whack the grass flat as well.

It looks great to us! Thanks so much :)

and the workshop tent should go where?

@richard: proposed location for curious magic next to süßkiez and lemon camp on the map. It is not very big, but can host a nice booth where you can show off any sciency things, and I believe in the neighborhood there will be enough space for camping.

i think thats a great spot for it

@waldo @randypence Hello Waldo, hello Randy! SuessKiez here. We have been wrestling with camp planning all day yesterday and have realised we have a space problem because of slopy slopes and the orientation of sound and the amount of space we need in terms of offerings + camp space. We have sent you an email regarding the issue. Could you please take a look? Happy Sunday <3

My impression after the meeting tonight is... no, it will not be possible to allocate an additional camping area to Süßkiez for 16-18 tents (which would be absolute bare minimum about 1mx2m tent x16 = 32m2). As far as I understand, that size of an unallocated, flat, usable area simply does not exist anymore (inside the festival gate). Others, feel free to clarify or contradict.

@waldo @randypence @sweetlikecandy will you please copy kieze@kiezburn.org on that conversation so we’re in the loop

Forwarding now!!! <3

All concerns you have, please post them here. We want to keep this site planning process as transparent as possible. tnx!

please see below. sorry, I thought this went live last night, but for some reason it did not (did not press "save" after adding attachments - duhh!)

Hello Site Planning Crew, so here is the bulk of the information regarding SuessKiez allocated area struggles:

We (Suesskiez) need your help!

We had an extensive build plan session today during which we realised that the site we have cannot accommodate our camp offerings AND our camp kitchen AND all the sleeping tents for 35+ people that we are. You can see a couple of sketches we were working with today - the pile of tents on the side (16-18) is the one in "overflow".

As a camp, we will offer:

dj booth + soundsystem
dancing area (covered)
chill area (covered)
effigy
alienata (movable+stationary art)
firepit (possibly - hopefully)

to function as a camp we need
- kitchen
- covered eating space/camp gathering/resting space

Plus we hear the grey water tank is in "our" allocated space.

Plus tents for 35 people (most not in couples = not sharing, but also all tents fairly small)

Plus space to be able to safely walk around/get out (fire exits, as we are a bit confined in the valley) for both camp area and camp guest area

Looking at the map, we do not have enough ground (flat for tents) to be able to accommodate everything. We have tried a few solutions but this does not work. The large part of the area in red on the map is actually hills and unworkable space.

In addition , we have a situation with the platform and the strange YELLOW CIRCLE PIPE on it that make this space unworkable in terms of high-traffic camp or guest space as high hazard of tripping. Not the fun kind.

Lastly but importantly, we are limited with positioning possibilities because of sound direction to the East.

OUR QUESTION: If there a chance to allocate us a small tent-only area nearby (near Monkeys? Deine Mudda? Drug Sluts?) where we could pitch a small living quarters for members of the camp?

Looking forward to hear from you <3
Alina, Jan, Paul for SuessKiez.

adding more images for discussion...

tent is fairly standard "WURFZELT 2 SECONDS 2 FRESH&BLACK 2 PERSONEN WEISS QUECHUA" https://www.decathlon.de/wurfzelt-2-seconds-freshblack-id_8357352.html

layout with 2/3 of camp sharing tiny "2 person" tent, other 1/3 sleeping alone in tiny "2 person" tent, with 1m path between 1st and 2nd, and 3rd and 4th row, and 0.5m between tents otherwise for guy-lines takes 127.5m2, which is more than actual useable space (118m2), and leaves spare 38.5m2 for kitchen, water, offerings, common space, etc. from total allocation (166m2)

there has to be something wrong with Google Maps square meter calculations

@cjyetman and @sweetlikecandy your calculation is based on the circumference of your area (118m) and not the surface, which is 0,062ha, which translates to 620 square meter. 620 square meter is more than enough to house all of the amenities you propose. Therefore, i do not see the issue.

If you do lack space for tents, then please put your tents around there, there are plenty of little spots where different tents can go. I do not believe we have an issue here.

that "188m" seemed really bizarre, and off to me... had no idea that is circumference (of the smallest circle that contains the polygon?), which also seems like a bizarre thing to print... what is the purpose of that?

no idea :) But so: the single tent you showed above is 3,22m2 , add 1,7m2 for walking around, and you got 5m2. A 40person camp, with everyone their own tent, would add up to about 200m2. Add in 50m2 for some extra comfort and annoying tent placement, and you got yourself still 370m2 for other shabang :)

Also, who can help us get rid of the STRANGE YELLOW PIPE? Does this need to be discussed with Freiland? Can we go ahead and do it ourselves? It's a pain in the ass and we want it to go :)

Yes. I put this (and whether or not the shower grey water will need to be accessed during the event) on the list of open questions for Freiland. Next call with Freiland is Wednesday. Maybe/hopefully we'll get answers to that.

I would count on it, and if not: remove it and put it back afterwards? ❤️

Remove and attach it afterwards is Plan B. But even with that platform as a "usable" place for tents and fooling around, the valley still does not provide enough flat surface. We have to expand a bit, closer to drugsluts and there-is-no-monkey-camp area.

FYI... there was a call with Freiland today. These questions were not answered. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eVX4rhDH-rnCBR5n8qoNPj-VoO7z4fbhm2dHv6XR8ko/edit

There is a simple option of closing the showers above the grey water tank when it's full. That way it won't need to be emptied during the event, and a larger area will be usable without leaving a drive-in. They grey water tank is going to be roughly 2.5x5m and will be parked as close to the slope as possible. Questions regarding yellow pipe and wooden platform will need to wait until next Wednesday unfortunately. Is it's more urgent let me know and i will push outside of the Wed call schedule.

I've also gotten a request from underworld about expansion. Gate will probably not like, but in order to fit everyone, we will probably need to include northeast of the preferred gate to accommodate tents

let them please ask here to remain transparent.

sorry i´m getting confused about communication and we need confirmation for our soundcamp planning. randy stated end of april " ... the little area underworld marked between the mesa and valley is free for you to also camp in", he is refering to this map (layer UnderWorld): goo.gl/Dm67nF now i reached out to him because we want the area to be marked in the final map as well so everyone knows its the camping area from UnderWorld as we can´t camp in the valley for 2 reasons: Sound and Locations of Stage (there will be a concrete stage build from the Freiland crew). masters of mapping and site planning, thank you for an awesome job - can you confirm, please?