Sat 5 Sep 2015 10:53PM

What should be our policy on refugees?

AR Andrew Reitemeyer Public Seen by 535

The current refugee crisis and our response to future ones is not something we can ignore under the excuse of "not core policy". Human rights are fundamental to Pirate Principles and our informal slogan is "Sharing is Caring". How can we be proponents of digital sharing but balk at sharing other resources that we have in abundance.

What should our regular quota be and what should we do in the face of black swan crises causing massive population movements?


pilotfever Sun 6 Sep 2015 4:08AM

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/5/9265501/refugee-crisis-europe-syria ( http://www.vox.com/2015/9/5/9265501/refugee-crisis-europe-syria )

I'm of the opinion that murder is illegal, therefor war should be too. When we allow wars to start in sovereign nations (and Syria has long been on the list after Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran) by foreign policy mechanisms supported by the United States, they don't have to deal with the crisis to the extent that neighbouring countries, and Europe as a whole does. 'Sharing is caring' would suggest better use of our resources, and sustainability. I think this starts at home in New Zealand with a UBI based on a renewable energy credit as a parallel domestic currency. It could be applied in North America, China and elsewhere also. From the perspective of the war mongers, destabilising 'enemy' nations in the 'axis of evil' to the point where civilians become the enemy, that is 'terrorists' is good for the surveillance and police state regime. Humanities lack of compassion for nations before war and insurgency is the reason that we are turning our countries into the nations to which we are opposed, and good people into enemies. I'm not suggesting we part the sea all the way to Syria and create a landbridge, but let us at least think big enough to suggest reducing the violence and misuse of resources, and with it, the need for expansion and war mongering.


michael john sinclair. Sun 6 Sep 2015 8:32AM

First call for NewZealand Pirates would be to do a simple call for action to take in Refugees like Iceland just did. ask your Goverment what thy think and are doing for Asyl crisis. after that ask your citizens then make it public.


[deactivated account] Mon 7 Sep 2015 1:05AM

I would say that considering that even Albert Einstein was a refugee, it can only be said that to deny our fellow human beings a safe place to live is unconscionable socially, morally and economically.
We did not deny Ruth Key a place in NZ, so why John Key should deny them a place is beyond reason.


[deactivated account] Mon 7 Sep 2015 7:22AM

I would say that considering that even Albert Einstein was a refugee, it can only be said that to deny our fellow human beings a safe place to live is unconscionable socially, morally and economically.
We did not deny Ruth Key a place in NZ, so why John Key should deny them a place is beyond reason.


Andrew Reitemeyer Tue 8 Sep 2015 5:23AM

The government has made a move - IMO it is inadequate but there will be an ongoing conversation leading up to the review of the quota next year. The New York Times reports that the war in Syria is partially due to climate change which means that such crises are to be expected in the future with increasing frequency. We are going to have to work on a global scale. We should think of ways to shelter people who need temporary refuge until they can return to their homeland as well as those who need permanent asylum.

The question of what we should do in the face of fut


[deactivated account] Wed 9 Sep 2015 2:48AM

As the refugee crisis grows I expect it will lead to some interesting changes in NZ's property prices bubble.


Hubat McJuhes Fri 11 Sep 2015 11:12PM

The german cacellor Merkel has just again made clear that the number of refugees Germany is willing to accept is unlimited. Every refugee whos particular case is meeting the criterias will be welcomed. Refugees from Syria will be excepted semi-automatically, without the need of individual proof. There is - and will not be - any quota. The estimations are suggesting that there will be > 800.000 people making it to Germany this year (20.000 to 60.000 is common). There is no reason to assume that it will be less in the following years, unless the situation in Syria changes significantly. These people just shrug their shouldsers and agee to simply do what needs to be done. Thousands and thousands of voluntees are helping to make things work for the unthinkable steam of people coming.
(OK, there is also right wing terrorism buring down proposed refugee hostels nearly on a dayly basis, but let's just think of this as a different story for now)

For once I feel proud of my country of origin. An extremly unusual but very, very pleasant feeling.

I love my country of choosing so dearly for ohh so many things; and I am grateful for having been accepted as NZ citizen and as such feel pride for oh so many things the people of Aotearoa deal so nicely with. Amongst many other things there is Kiwi'Ts fatastic welcoming culture and generosity.
It is saddening for me to recognise that the government is not willing to apply this here - it should do a bold move and say: 'Welcoming? That's us' and set this as a clear message to the world.

Sure enough, Syria is on the other side of the world and doesn't appear to be much of our concern. And also, as a one-off measurement doubling the quota to allow 600 additional syrian refugees into the country (200 peryear for the next 4 years) is not nothing.
But given that our quota is so shockingly low in the first place: it is not much, either.

As Murdoch Stephens, of Doing Our Bit wrote:

"The call to double our quota isn't some random figure. Before this current focus on the crisis, we've campaigned for a permanent increase of the quota to 1500 places. Doubling the quota would make up for population growth over the 28 years since the quota was set, and even if we doubled the quota by 2019, we'd still be taking half of what Australia will accept on a per capita basis. Doubling the quota is an absolute bottom line. Whatever emergency provisions we make should be on top of that."


Hubat McJuhes Fri 11 Sep 2015 11:36PM

@williamasiata What do you mean? Are you affraid that some hundred more refugees will increase the pressure on the house prices in any significant way and those 50.000 regular immigrants wouldn't?

Current house prices are not at all defined by demand of people who want to live in them. The bubble in the house prices stems from foreign capital brought into the country because richies in the world don't trust their own markets anymore.

But if we want to discuss this aspect, we should shift your and this comment to a new discussion.


Hubat McJuhes Sat 12 Sep 2015 12:11AM

If you think NZ Aotearoa should do more to help with the current refugee crisis, you might want to consider signing this online petition by the good people of actionStation


David Peterson Mon 14 Sep 2015 7:08AM

Shouldn't have a policy. If/when we get MPs, it could be a conscious issue.


[deactivated account] Mon 14 Sep 2015 9:12AM

@davidpeterson while I would hope that at minimum, our MPs would have a conscious, it should be apparent to anyone that refugees only have a positive social and economic impact.
We could make a simple condition of settlement to be outside of Auckland, in the other cities and rural towns which don't have a housing problem.
It maybe a great benefit to rural centres if more ethnic food shops are established for one example.
Another point can be that a significant number of refugees are bringing valuable skills in the trades and professions which NZ is short of.


David Peterson Mon 14 Sep 2015 11:55AM

You're making a case for increased immigration though, not specifically refugees.


[deactivated account] Mon 14 Sep 2015 11:57AM

I'd be happy to accept Tony Abbott as a political refugee...



[deactivated account] Wed 22 Jun 2016 11:21PM

Although I am a neighbourly lead, it is next to useless for national discussions, I can't even contact people outside the eastern suburbs of Wellington,
unless it is on the "Fairfax journalist trolls the region with a controversial news article link" post.


pilotfever Wed 2 Nov 2016 12:30AM

Hello Andrew! I am reconsidering a leadership role in Pirate Party and Internet party amalgamation. Personally, I would like to lead a unified party (more Pirate) to an election win.

My offer to participate in Labour and New Zealand First has resulted in a deafening silence.

How do we propose to make our voices heard in 2017?

Perhaps, as an interim step Pirate Party and Internet Party could lobby for my inclusion on either the Labour or New Zealand First party list.

Once I have sufficient support I can step out on my own.

Best regards,

James Abbott



David Peterson Wed 2 Nov 2016 4:16AM

Not everyone here agrees with NZF policies.... I'd say the majority disagree with them!!

Ditto Labour.

In general to get onto the list of a major party such as Labour (heh, just checking... are they still a major party of has Greens overtaken them yet?? LOL) or even NZF, you need to either have a major national (or at least very strong local) presence, or to have worked with the members within that party at some level for a number of years already.

If you've done neither of those (which is my guess), it is little surprise you're being met with silence. Especially as you're showing a lack of understanding of the political system.

Sorry to be so blunt.


pilotfever Wed 2 Nov 2016 5:31AM

Hello David, the extent of my involvement in New Zealand politics has not been covered by the mainstream media, and as a leader, I prefer to keep it that way. As to the silence of the major parties despite meeting with all their leaders excluding Mr Peters and including the departed Norman Russel... all I can say is that the powers that be funding them have little interest in an idealist such as myself pushing for a meritocracy against US influence.

My ideas are best heard through participation in UK politics and may come across pro India and China which probably excludes Mr Peters and New Zealand first.

Of course it may just be a little uncomfortable for the truth to get out, agreements costing New Zealand about $30 billion dollars a year in stolen/misappropriated intellectual property, innovation and corporate espionage by the likes of Samsung, NEC, Microsoft, Apple and VC firms like First Round Capital: lost opportunities including iPod, Uber, PokemonGo and Fove...


Hubat McJuhes Wed 2 Nov 2016 10:54AM

Hi @pilotfever . I very much welcome your initiative. But it is brought forward in an inappropriate thread. You are off-topic here.

Would you like to explain your ideas regarding a cooperation or merger with the IP in this thread maybe?

If meritocracy is one of your core concerns, would you like to enrich this one, maybe?

And if you intend to take over a leading role in PPNZ, which is highly appreciated, would you like to introduce yourself and provide a political profile here?


Denny Thompson Wed 30 Nov 2016 10:31PM

With the current social problems re housing, poverty, "real" unemployment ect ... & a tanking economy .... I have no problem with refugees. We'll have to limit the number of migrants(70,000 YTD) been granted residency to offset the number of refugees...so their theoretically isn't an issue. The usual social integration policys are already in place and probably can be amended as and when.