Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:23PM

Discussion: Buckets in deficit/in the red

DU Deleted User Public Seen by 19

Is it OK for personal buckets to be in the red? If so, what are the conditions in which having a deficit bucket is OK? What are the risks/flow on for the organisation of people having buckets in deficit? How much ($) is it OK to be in the red for? How long can people be in the red for? How many people (and for how long and to what $) can the organistion support in the red? What happens if someone leaves the org and their bucket is in deficit? What could we have in place to support people to not go into red with their bucket?


Yvonne Sun 19 Aug 2018 2:25AM

good Sunday reading !! Geez...the issues!!!


Michaela Kennedy Sun 19 Aug 2018 8:37AM

My thoughts - each time a person goes into the red or looks like they will go into the red based on their usual fortnightly expenses, a conversation needs to be had. Evidence of money coming in or invoices to be sent must be given to the person having this conversation. I don't believe we can hold too many buckets in the red without knowledge and evidence that these funds will be re-couped / re-paid. These conversations need to be documented and stored in the person's file. I believe this needs to be the coaches responsibility, but not sure who when it is a coach or board member. Much needed conversation, thank you.


Jason Emmins Sun 19 Aug 2018 1:21PM

Its not something that sits comfortable with me at all, but there could be very easy/simple solutions..... but like the suggestions by Michaela. Some thoughts/brain dump:

Is there a mechanism where this can be identified early (i.e. the individual will not meets its next 2 pay run obligations/payments) from a payroll/finance perspective or within our accounting system?
Once its identified, who is the best person to have this conversation?
What arrangements could be put into place so the bucket does not go into the red and how is this then documented (and then who is responsible for following it up)?
If the individual leaves before paying the red amount back- would this constitute a bad debt (my initial thinking is it would not as we would not have an invoice or anything to support the transaction).
If these are documented in an individuals file, who has access to these and where are they stored (it sounds like a bit of a HR file)?
In terms of length of time in red, I would suggest that it be for as short of a time frame as possible (i.e. one month).
I would also presume the board has an oversight of this and would capture this in a risk area/matrix/action plan?
Are there any other self managing organisations that work like us who manage this area that we know of and could possibly ask for some advice? Something that is coming to my mind is the Results Based Accountability (RBA) framework for some reason- not sure why but its coming to mind?


Deleted User Sun 19 Aug 2018 6:56PM

Personally, I would not allow my bucket to go into the red.......if there is no money , I would not expect to be paid.

The Cash report lets people know how much is in their bucket-I think there is some learning here around how to read the reports-the info is there.

I think that we could have some kind of statement like: 'It is your responsibility to monitor your bucket via the cash and accrual reports and ensure that you are operating with a credit balance. If there are circumstances that indicate that your bucket may go into deficit, you need to.: (need a process here)......'

'There are limited circumstances in which Jeder acknowledge that a deficit bucket may be accepatable for a short period of time (eg invoices have been issued and payment not yet received, ..........any others....maybe we could list here some reality based examples so we know what we are considering)'

Re conversations, I think that some of these convesrations happen verbally so there is no record. Maybe we need some kind of template that is a request to draw on a deficit bucket. This could capture the ask, the reason and a time frame for when it would go back into credit.

We dont have individual files, do we?

The biggest question for me is who gives the Ok for this to happen? eg the board, a coach, the admin person doing payroll or the individual? We need to consider that this is often dicsovered on payroll day so it needs to be a quick to access process. and then who is reponsbile if it goes awry?


Michelle Dunscombe Thu 23 Aug 2018 7:52AM

@kerry63 each Jeder member should have a file that contains their PAYG details, police & WWC checks. I agree there needs to be process of who has the conversation with the individual, who approves and how we track.


Deleted User Thu 23 Aug 2018 8:39AM

@michelledunscombe do you mean 'should' as in that it is something that we need to do or 'should' as in it should be there somewhere?


Michelle Dunscombe Thu 23 Aug 2018 8:46AM

@kerry63 I believe they exist in dropbox. @sara50 will know where they are?


Lyb Makin Tue 21 Aug 2018 2:48AM

I think there needs to be a general rule that buckets do not go into the red, and that each person is supported to develop a way to make sure they don't end up in the red (e.g. personal budgeting) - or perhaps others can share how they self-manage their buckets? However, when / if it does happen, there is a process - i.e. a conversation and agreed way forward (it may be as simple as waiting for an invoice to be paid, it may not). I think that either the coach has this conversation, but if it is a coach or Board member, then that person elect another coach or Board member to talk it through with... And then this is an agreed process that is set out in the Handbook. I like Kerry's suggested wording above. Kerry has another question around who approves someone going into the red? The Board? As a Board member, I'm not clear on when it might be okay for someone to go into the red - in my perspective, I could really only approve this on a case by case basis and when there is a clear way forward that has been agreed to...


Deleted User Thu 23 Aug 2018 9:00AM

Lets have a brain storm of some example of the circumstances in which it might be OK to go into the red.


Lynn Lennon Fri 24 Aug 2018 2:39AM

eg bucket in red. A Cossie currently has a bucket in the red and has asked for the AoH to be paid from their bucket, sending it further DR (I don't know the exact amount). In this scenario, being a Jeder function, is to OK to allow the member to do this, do we require advice on timeframe of this being rectified, do we have a blanket ruling that once in the red no further expenditure can be added until such time as it is addressed? As yet I haven't processed this request.

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