~ ☮Current Actions ~ from sea to shining sea.
Dennis Burk Lintz PublicSeen by 33For posting upcoming events
Since you do not answer the issues of substance, I will assume your block means you are willing to walk away from this group that is supporting this idea. I wish you well along in your journey. I'm here to support this idea as best as I can because what I know is happening on the ground with OWS, Occupy Venice Beach here. It's a great idea to help with it all. Hugs and good luck.
OK ... hey People ... didn't mean to start a big fuss, but there are many people helping with this. i just happen to be the one on Loomio. And besides, i thought it was agreed last year that anyone could call a National Gathering; at one point we had three groups hoping to plan one for this year. Nothing has happened yet.
i understand what you are saying, Justin, but why would you not be excited that something might happen that would be good for the group? In fact the original date we set last year, which would have turned out to be the perfect week, was sabotaged and a week was chosen that is traditionally the hottest week. Michael Buell almost died of renal failure. This ONLY occurred because ONE COUPLE insisted that the dates were bad, so everyone for some reason had to "vote" on another date, and then that couple never even came. So the point is, if you can come ... great. If not ... hold Solidarity actions where you are. When we have an "emergency," we mobilize quickly in the streets. We don't need 11 months to plan a NatGat. And this is more of a symbolic Nat Gat so we, as a group, can preserve a National presence. i think it's very important.
i don't think anyone would agree that inviting EVERYONE for a NATIONAL GATHERING to Occupy the Rose Parade is cause for any alarm. i am also not sure why you're objecting. Is it because we just realized that NO ONE has stepped up to do this, and this is very last minute? Why is the voice of one person on LOOMIO not enough? Do you need EVERYONE who is in agreement in Southern California to come here to Loomio? i don't think that's possible. And i apologize for the "dark commentary," as you put it, but as an Occupier pointed out, the abuse i had to endure planning last year's event made me gain 20 pounds ... the process that was being used was corrupted. And so, i block using those means - Maestro Conference - especially. There is no set format for calling for a National Gathering, or am i wrong?
In the Declaration, it says: " ... we came together as INDIVIDUALS ... " (emphasis added) ... NOT "groups of five or more."
There is absolutely NO WAY i am EVER going to participate in the same kind of process we had last year, which was obviously construed by someone to drive us all away from each other. There was an abuser in that group, and just like abusers, they don't abuse everyone, and most people did not understand or care about what was happening. Most people in the group either supported the abuser, or remained silent. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE TO ME. i suffered greatly, and that issue is now out of my hands, and in the hands of professionals. When the abuser actually stood up at the last GA at the NatGat last year and said "I'm not an Activist" (We have that on film) i just thought "WHY DID WE HAVE HIM AT THE HELM OF OUR CALLS, THEN?" One egomaniac comes to destroy our party and hardly anyone notices that all our calls are derailed by hours of answering his silly questions designed to gleen information and analyze our personalities. If no one noticed that we were being played psychologically by a patriarchal misogynist, then by all means, wait until the papers come out. This is not my "opinion."
So i have EVERY RIGHT as an Occupy Wall Street activist - since Sept 24 2011 - to start an idea. This is my idea: to very simply combine an already-existing event that gets NATIONAL attention and that several hundred Occupiers will already attend, and invite EVERYONE, making it a NATIONAL GATHERING. It's not a National "Conference", it a "GATHERING." We're gonna be gathering anyway ... so honestly, i don't understand why it would be anything other than ACCEPTED.
Justin, i love you. But i respectfully disagree with your statements.
A month is plenty of time to prepare to come. i got to S17 this year in NYC with less than a week's notice and $150 loan. And that is another point ... most Occupiers on the West Coast can't get to NYC. It seems only fair that we are represented Coast-to-Coast, and having a NatGat on the West Coast was very popular last year. By the time the actual event occurred, though, with the date change, which caused many groups not to be able to come (coincidence?) and also the hottest week of the year in Sacramento ... OBviously there was a low turnout.
On my first trip to Sacramento it was obvious there were going to be HUGE logistical concerns, not the least of which was PEOPLE DRAMA. Since there is still a very vested interest in NOT having Occupy continue, of course a very visible presence with hundreds of people at a Nationally broadcast parade is going to start some ripples. BRING IT. Let's see who is really in Solidarity! We are STILL Occupying Wall Street, are we not?
Any person or group could have stepped up before this. No one did. It is important to this movement to retain a national presence. i was in NYC ... all those people still there with their hearts beating after four years of Occupying Wall Street. i LOVE them. We haven't stopped Occupying, not in Zuccotti, not in Los Angeles, not in San Diego, because OCCUPY is an idea that cannot be stopped.
As for "diversity of tactics," many of us have adopted the tactic of "last minute Actions" because there is less a chance of sabotage. This last minute call for Action is an example of that diversity, and an attempt to have a National Gathering in 2015 that does not damage humans in the planning process. This is really a no-brainer, in my opinion. We're already there. We have hundreds coming. It's our FIFTH year doing this. People are actually WAKING UP to the OWS message. Why stop now? LET'S MAKE IT THE BIGGEST ONE EVER :D
In Summary:
i do not see any reason not to make this into a
"National Gathering 2015" <3
Sally that makes me very sad. You never "saw" psychological abuse? Are you trained to do so? Wouldn't a more compassionate response be to find out why i was a target who experienced abuse, but you did not? You and the others who were blind to this and defending an abuser were just fooled. There were many many people who "saw" what was happening, and stood up for me. You "object" to the fact that i felt abused? Do you have any idea what you are saying? If you are in denial, please re-listen to all the sessions of last year. Psychological manipulators choose their victims ... you were not chosen, because you were obedient to the abuser. You clearly have no idea how abuse works. If you would like to talk to a professional about what occurred and which you are choosing to ignore, i can refer your request to someone who can explain Patriarchal, misogynistic abuse. Targets are usually people who do NOT patronize the Patriarch. That would be ME. As if these comments were not enough, it should prove it to you from the simple fact that our 2-hour "De-Brief CALL" ended up talking about 5 or 6 hours, and then went into ANOTHER call of extraordinary length, and after the second call, which was to be the last, the abusive Patriarch would not keep asking, incessantly, to address the "issue with Donna" and even tried to get us to have MORE de-brief calls! Do you "object" to the fact that i was obviously suffering during the calls? Did you think, perhaps, that i was merely being "difficult"? Making too much out of nothing? Should've shut up and be seen and not heard? Again, this makes me very sad.
OVB is not "the host" of this event, so i don't know why you are worried about them. Also, are you abstaining because you can't go? Are you not in favor of a last-minute, OCCUPY NATIONAL GATHERING 2015 at a NATIONALLY BROADCAST event that would bring wide exposure to the LIFE and continued efforts of Occupy Wall Street? This attitude is curious, and makes no sense to me.
This weekend, we will collaborate on further logistics, and i will let all of you know how SIMPLE this will be. The ways people can help without being there is to 1) Be in Solidarity; 2) Help with outreach on Social Media; 3) Help with funding Occupiers to come on an individual basis as needed; 4) UNTOLD OTHER WAYS
See i have this feeling that some of you just don't like me because i have to be brash and fully transparent to combat all these negative attitudes. i am an extremely positive person, who is constantly attacked for being exuberant. My good spirit has been subjected to so much abuse since Occupy because i DON'T give up, and i DON'T care what petty haters say about me. i came to OCCUPY WALL STREET. And anyone trying to stop me, or anyone else, from doing that is no true Occupier. i have proved my dedication to this movement for over 4 years, and LIVE IN A SMART CAR TO PROTEST PAYING WALL STREET BANKS, despite being permanently disabled with a spinal injury. If anyone in this group doubts my sincerity then i doubt YOU.
Sorry, Sally, but you sound like a mother in denial that her child is being abused by her husband. That is the mentality you are displaying right now. OF COURSE "you" didn't "see" any abuse! Why did others see it? Are you trying to say i am making it up? i already feel SICK just having to relive those memories ... do you get sick, Sally? Maybe YOU weren't the one abused, then?
i feel very attacked, again. Almost everything i try to do is sabotaged. WHY? Why is there any reason not to just say, "HEY! GREAT IDEA!" Everyone here likes it, and as i said, we don't need permission from anyone to have a National Gathering. WE ARE AUTONOMOUS. i honestly thought people would be really happy about this, and most of all supportive. EVEN IF THEY CAN'T COME. Reminder that a couple from Chicago made us change the dates last year and they didn't even come. It caused a lot of groups not to come and was too hot and affected the whole event. So anyone strongly objecting to something that is going to be a VERY VISIBLE, VERY NECESSARY Occupation of the Rose Parade that lets the world know that OCCUPY WALL STREET is still around, frankly, doesn't make any sense, if you are in Solidarity with the Occupy Movement.
Autonomous. Non-Hierarchical. Leaderless.
And still alive in 2015! :)
<3
ps. Less than an hour after posting that proposal, i was contacted by MaestroConference? Who did THAT, i wonder? Because we do not need to use a surveillance device to plan our conferences.
I will share info, surely. I just am standing aside from the decision. If I am not actively participating, I don’t feel that I have a right to have an influence. My concern for OVB probably should not have been put in my decision post; it was sparked by Nikki’s comments. There does not seem to be a way to reply to a post out of sequence, so I did not make a not a direct reply.
Sally, the problems at OVB are disturbing and I've only heard one side and after this last weekend, I am being excluded from the "other side", pretty typical for the occupy cores I have found, this huge disconnect has happened as the result of a personal couple's breakup and a new infant. The anger and meanness was remarkable to me, and its likely substance related too. yet because it's in that group's core group, it seems to just be ugly and mean. I need to go to a GA, because I think both sides are equal in their contributions to the mess, yet, how the group treated any "mother and child" needs to be addressed just on general humanity terms.
Donna, I think your right, I'll be there with those I support from occupy. Justin seems to want to use occupy for something specifically, which is great, yet his concerns have nothing (I see yet) to do with your proposal, which I support along with what other occupiers are planning. Hugs.
I responded to your inflammatory accusations already & am ignoring your projections about what you think I want to do with Occupy.
"Speak with us" not for us is a key community value.
My work speaks for itself including the 3 #OWS related projects still alive & kicking. Weekly.
The proposal is to make Donna's Rose Parade Direct Actions & Events into Nat Gat.
I block that idea & propose a solidarity statement.
The statement 'PS, does it really matter where we have a NatGat or does it matter we have one?' speaks volumes to who is paying attention to how things work in Occupy.
Yes it does matter.
We are just a small group of self appointed stakeholders.
Ask anyone outside of this group- You'll be surprised.
Make sure to tell them when you want to have it.
So can we quit the personal dramatics & stories of persecution and get back to our mission:
Helping make a Nat Gat happen for the entire movement- not just people in and around Rose Parade.
California hosting another NatGat, one stemming from one person's passion to have it is not a good idea at all.
Justin, i am not accusing you of anything. The Patriarchal misogynist i am referring to is not you. i am NOTHING against you and am a GREAT fan of you and your work with the Detroit Water Brigade. i don't even know what accusations you are referring to. i write in general statements and have a problem writing "you" when i should write "one" and maybe that's what's happened here? i don't remember accusing you of anything.
But why "California hosting another NatGat, one stemming from one person’s passion to have it is not a good idea at all."? Why is one person's idea not good enough to start a seed? There are many of us here and i am just the messenger. They should have sent someone stronger ... :(
Justin, one woman's idea turned into "Bank Transfer Day," the first successful massive action that Occupy was in Solidarity with. Kristen Christian was not even an Occupier, but because of her idea, which resulted in hundreds of thousands of closed bank accounts, she was attacked by (most likely infiltrator) Occupiers from Los Angeles. There was no Solidarity statement needed: An idea was presented and the actions occurred. After that they ran our camps down. So please excuse me if i am protective of idea that i know will catapult the idea of Occupying Wall Street back into public consciousness. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. i don't even know why you are angry with me ... what did i do?
Um, you proposed to make Nat Gat happen as apart of Rose Parade protest.
Unclear where you got anger from.
Occupy is in the public consciousness daily.
Look to #Ferguson, #BlackLivesMatter & the #ShutItDown Tactic.
So putting personal work aside can we get back to what you proposed & if this group wants to piggy back Nat Gat on Rose Bowl.
That'd be awesome.
Sounds great! What are plans for housing, meals, etc? And what is planned for the other 2 weeks?
Carolyn, we are working on logistics this weekend, and as you know, all the food for last year's Nat Gat was gathered by a few of our Organic farmers who are working with farms here locally. Exact dates will vary, as right now, our only idea is to get everyone to the Occupy the Rose Parade event on January 1, 2016. For housing we have some people looking into parks, but there is no problem sleeping in vehicles in Los Angeles, and the 40,000 homeless in the city are allowed to set up tents, so we can hard ground it, as well. We would need to have people arrive at least by the day before, or earlier if people want to create or assemble their signs, floats or attire here. The event starts very early in the morning, and there is public transportation from Los Angeles, but we will look into places to camp/stay near the parade route, where many,many people - a million? - will be camped out for the parade the next day. i will keep people posted after meetings in LA this week. Thanks for your positive reply! :)
Umm. I'm not Justin Wedes & actually Detroit Water Brigade turned out to be a bit of a false flag created by Wedes.. The crisis was not a severe as he portrayed it to be. He had a personal vision of creating Occupy Sandy style Hubs in Detroit that he would be the lead stakeholder of.
He had three up & running before locals realized he was fundraising & soliciting unneeded donations.
So you know- He was eventually exiled for the exact kind of solo organizing you are suggesting using a Group's branding he didn't have consent or consensus from.
I'm actually based in NYC & work with NYC Lite Brigade when they need a hand.. Never worked with DWB & like most of #OWS have distanced myself from Wedes, Grim, Tunney & Micah White due to their weird interpretations of how we organize as a community and habit of soliciting donations for personal expenses.
The projects I'm involved with (like the rest of the #OWS projects still running) shed the Occupy branding to avoid the targeted harassment you've experienced.
Occupy is very much in the public consciousness.
You can see some of our work via the hashtags #OpSafeWinter, #ShutItDown, #SpectraPipeline, #TPP, #BlackLivesMatter, #MAM, #FightFor15 just to list a few off the top of my head..
Occupy is a movement of movements & groups made up of individuals.
3 people supporting + one front line visionary does not a Nat Gat make...
I'd like to suggest folks take a look at Tidal Magazine to understand where the movement is at. It's always been the intellectual heart of the movement & where we as a community coordinate our next steps.
There's a reason we don't Occupy Wall Street anymore.
So I stand by my block.
Not a good idea having one person create another California based Nat Gat in this manner wo any consensus building going on.
Our movement is bigger than the 6 people having this convo on Loomio.
I cannot comment on DWB—I do not shed the Occupy brand and resent folks who do; I think Occupy Sandy showed how we can present Occupy in a manner that weakens the pushback. However, I was wondering about how to get a larger discussion of this going; there does seem to be good energy and some organizing already happening in Southern California, and the “NatGat Organizing Group” disbanded after the closing of the 2014 Gathering, so how do we broaden this discussion? How do we start to build the consensus to make this a valid NATIONAL, rather than REGIONAL, event?
In my view, the time put into organizing last year was valuable in that we had people from the east, south, north and west and overseas. It wasn't large but it was national and even international. Occupying the Rose Bowl is a great photo op and action and place to have an Occupy Gathering, but it's not going to a Nat Gat.
This group could be useful. I think we could compose a great solidarity statement and conduct outreach and, if possible, show up.
Thank-you to all of you for your input. i hear and understand what each of you is saying. And i am very upset with the whole "i started Occupy Wall Street' group. They may have "started" OWS, but clearly they have no follow through, because the best way to fight the Wall Street Banks, at this point, is the word "OCCUPY." As long as we, even symbolically, "Occupy Wall Street," the 1% cannot hide. In my opinion, keeping the words "Occupy Wall Street" alive is our very best peaceful, non-violent tool to fight the banksters.
Again, there have been MANY of us talking about a National Gathering in Southern California for almost a year and a half, it's not just me. i am just "the one on Loomio." Many people just don't want to deal with what they feel was a corrupted process from the start. There is so much drama, and that might be funny coming from me, but i am just a mirror. Coming here to Loomio made my hands shake, because i was psychologically attacked by an insidiously pervasive person during the organizing of the last one, and i know i over-reacted setting up a WALL against this person at the start - NOT YOU, Justin, and i'm sorry i thought you were the other Justin. Are you "Justin from Info?" :)
A potential NatGat in San Diego that was proposed by other OSD people at the first NatGat in Philly was struck down by Occupy San Diego. i was one of the ones who blocked that gathering, because it was to be held on 12-12-12 at the USA/Mexico border in conjunction with Occupy Tijuana and during a time when families are coming back and forth for the holidays to be with their families. i blocked a NatGat in my home town, because i felt it would endanger the families during their holidays, and i did not want to bring a high profile event to increase security and possibly cause problem for these people who need to go back and forth over the border. We are 25 miles from the International Border here, and many of our jointly planned international actions got sabotaged. That is another reason i waited until the last minute to propose this. It seems the longer ahead we plan, the more drama. i was trying to spare the group but i am obviously not very good at it. i am too emotional. :(
FYI: We are setting up a major occupation here. If all goes as planned, we hope it will create a domino effect throughout the country.Please remember this, when and if you hear about what we do. i apologize for the Security Culture here, but i was hoping that we could have a NatGat here, also, because we are planning this major move. We need more Occupiers to "hold down the fort," ... hopefully we can find them somewhere else, then.
i love you all, so much, even if you don't like me, you are my greatest teachers. i did not mean to appear to be acting alone - "the LONE NatGat Organizer Hypothesis - but many fear coming forward. Do you blame them?
It was just an idea. And ideas are bullet proof. It seems silly that 6 people could decide that a whole nation of people cannot come to create a NatGat here. i wonder what would have happened if OWS asked for permission first? At the heart of our documents, it says that we came together as INDIVIDUALS, in Solidarity. i am still in Solidarity with Occupy Wall Street, so i wonder Justin, if you say, "we no longer Occupy Wall Street," are you still a part of this group? If you no longer believe in what we are doing, why do you object?
Much LOVE, ONE LOVE, and i'll see those of you who can come at the Occupy the Rose Parade on January 1.
Donna can you help draft a Solidarity Statement & Call to Action we move through the consensus process on here so we can as a group lend our support and shake the Occupy network into heading to the Jan actions in & around the Rose Parade.
Yes I am Justin from Info.
Just slightly defensive about the often made confusion between we & Wedes.
<3 Justin
Thank-you Justin from Info. i do not care to draft a proposal, and would defer that to someone with more experience drafting Occupy documents.
i understand your defensiveness. ComPLETEly. Keep on truckin, Justin ... you do what you do.
Solidarity means that you stand with whatever from where ever you are located. i will always be in Solidarity with the message of Occupy Wall Street. i personally believe that keeping a focus on Wall Street is of utmost importance to our multitudinous causes. We all have our own ideas and driving forces. i am an Occupier of Wall Street. Just so you all know. i will stay here at the core of our mutual experience, and hold a root to our connection deep in my heart. We are all creating massive energy right now, as the System implodes. Good Activism to all of you, and again, always, much love ... especially to the haters. (Not YOU, Justin from Info) :D
There is no defensiveness actually, that I think is a little projection on your part.
Just trying to share established proven effective community tools & practices..
You already have the makings of a great solidarity statement and to be honest as it is something you are very passionate about you are best suited to help with the first draft.
If you start a Solidarity Statement proposal here I'd be more than happy to help refine into a shape Occupiers of all types will embrace & pass on to their communities.
Here are a couple examples I moved through the consensus process back when we still held GAs.
Tsampa Revolution Solidarity Statement: http://www.nycga.net/2012/03/proposal-for-tsampa-revolution-non-violent-solidarity-statement/
#TrinitySleeps Encampment Solidarity Statement: http://www.nycga.net/2012/07/occupy-union-square-encampment-trinity-sleeps-solidarity-statement/
<3 Justin "Not Wedes" Stone-Diaz
Fear is working great if you are asking people to 'hack'.
Geez. Thought we were talking about the next Nat Gat, not Donna.