[post - published] Belgium is a particracy, not a democracy. Why is it bad and how do we solve it?

J Josse Public Seen by 26

Rework of the old post that said "What is wrong with our democracy". I start with "Belgium is a particracy" this time and tried to simplify a bit. The goal is to have a lot of links/references to other articles, ... (still need to check the articles of De Morgen, ...)

New pad: https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/Democracy2

First there is an introduction where we refer to the last press articles and the different solutions...

Then we take 3 perspectives on why our current "democracy" is wrong: leadership (book Authority of Paul Verhaeghe), the presentation of Paul Nollen and the participation ladder of Arnstein and "Against Elections" from David Van Reybrouck.

If you want to add another perspective, go ahead and the text can still use a lot of improvement also.



Thierry Fenasse Sun 15 Jan 2017 7:55PM

Nice initiative! I'll take some time to read the pad. :bath_tone2:


Josse Fri 17 Mar 2017 10:58PM

After the comment of Valérie, going to the congress of Democratie.nu, ... I hope to have a better flow now: http://piratepad.be/p/Democracy2


Josse Fri 17 Mar 2017 11:01PM

I could refer to Transparencia here also already. I would like to work out the latter paragraphs a bit tomorrow (with links, ... to Sarah, ....) and start translating.


Patrick Installé Sat 18 Mar 2017 6:17AM

Just fresh, Transparencia is now in Belgian dutch to :-)


Josse Fri 24 Mar 2017 11:26PM

I am splitting the article in Why it is bad and a second article will talk about the possible solutions. The first part, translation in Dutch is done, French is "working on it".


Josse Sun 26 Mar 2017 3:33PM

I translated the first part article in French, so @hgo, it would be nice if you or anybody else could already have a look at it. https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/Democracy2fr


HgO Wed 29 Mar 2017 6:32AM

I'll do that tomorrow! I had several meetings this week-end and couldn't work on it, and right now I must do my work for the uni. But tomorrow I'm free :) I'm not forgetting you, don't worry ;)


Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 28 Mar 2017 12:13PM

There was on the Drupal website an article written by Marouan about a specific episode of particracy : when parties decided some years ago to increase their own public fundings. If there was a possibility to dig out this article, it would be great.

I think the article should start with describing what particracy means. It's obvious for us, maybe not for every citizen though.

For the elements of a democracy, I wished we would keep the elements that were in our statutes, to remain coherent, but the basic text has taken it over and now it's more confuse to describe democracy. Problem is : we will have different definitions of democracy every time we write a different article.


Thierry Fenasse Tue 28 Mar 2017 12:28PM

At a time where I did not have access to the DNS I did a duplicate of the Drupal on a personnal domain name. So you can search :


I kept a record of this drupal archiving on a piratelab pad.


Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 28 Mar 2017 12:32PM

Merci @tierce ! Here is the article I mentionned : http://drupal.gnunation.net/?q=node/2062 (it's only in french, unfortunately).


Josse Tue 28 Mar 2017 8:03PM

It is an interesting article that shows kind of the same problems (maybe we could refer to it), but I don't see a different version of democracy.


Valerie D. Wed 29 Mar 2017 5:45PM

I read the article yesterday evening, sorry for the delay.
Do you really want to publish it asap? Otherwise I would propose to further work on it, since at the moment, to be frank, to me it sounds "populistic/simplistic" :thinking:
... But maybe I am the only one who gets this impression?


Josse Wed 29 Mar 2017 6:39PM

We don't need to be in a hurry, but I was more afraid of being too technical than being to simplistic. I would like to better understand why you feel it that way.


Valerie D. Sat 1 Apr 2017 5:01PM

I am not sure exactly how I got this, probably it comes from the start with the examples on the particracy. I can try and work a bit on it on Monday I think.


Josse Wed 29 Mar 2017 7:03PM

Maybe we need to clearly state that we don't take stance for/against any of the named organisations, but against the mechanisms which chooses compromises of strategy instead of the good solution for the citizen. I will read it again myself after tomorrow to have a refreshed look at it.


Josse Sun 2 Apr 2017 10:08PM

Would be really cool @valeried


Valerie D. Wed 5 Apr 2017 6:28PM

I started working on it but then I realised I would rewrite, which is nonsense ; it's' your text not mine ;-) I will just add a few comments in the pad


Josse Thu 6 Apr 2017 6:03PM

@valeried If I rework the "anecdotes" to explain them better, so they don't appear as "a bit of everything", is the rest of the text more or less ok?


Valerie D. Tue 11 Apr 2017 2:07PM

I had not worked on the second part yet, sorry. If others are ok with it, don't wait for me.


Josse Sat 15 Apr 2017 2:27PM

I made the first part shorter, tried to apply the improvements you made in it and put a message on top to indicate that the original was in Dutch. I published the Dutch and French version and skipped English as I don't know anymore why we would waste our time with that.


Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 25 Apr 2017 2:37PM

Hier voor wie Facebook niet gebruikt een kopie van de reakties op dit artikel.


Thierry Fenasse Wed 26 Apr 2017 6:39AM

On dirait un ticket de caisse ... :tongue:


Valerie D. Fri 28 Apr 2017 3:01PM



Johan Vander Poorten Sat 29 Apr 2017 7:35AM

Wil U aub stoppen met mij emails te sturen van lumio. Ik volg dat niet meer, en de Piraten ook niet meer.

Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
Onderwerp: [Pirates BE - Permanent Assembly - Website Squad] [post - published] Belgium is a particracy, not a democracy. Why is it bad and how do we solve it?
Van: "Valerie D. (Loomio)"
Aan: [email protected]


Thierry Fenasse Sat 29 Apr 2017 9:22AM

U kunt jezelf jouw account uit te schakelen : https://www.loomio.org/profile
Met vriendelijke groeten


Valerie D. Sun 30 Apr 2017 8:51AM

just turn off the email notifications (left menu, bottom, email parameters).