An extra category for dwelling type would be welcomed. The different dwelling types represent different market opportunities that are not as easy to identify with the existing categorys

Hi @rodmchugh thanks for joining the discussion :-) If you haven't already, we'd appreciate you introducing yourself and any particular areas of interest here:
Welcome ... given these discussions are somewhat siloed and your interests probably cross topics.
Would you kindly clarify for me that the extra category you're keen for is to add ten or more storeys, and modify the 'four or more' category.

Tina, thinking about it some more the current sub classifications of joined dwellings is fine for my purposes. Identification of private dwellings in retirement villages would be useful though.

At the moment having a top category of 4 storeys or more means that it is impossible to distinguish between low rise and high rise apartments. If the top category was shifted to 10 or more storeys then it would be possible to identify high rise apartment. This has been an issue raised by Auckland Council.

Thanks @rosemarygoodyear what does everyone think about this? I would like to see everyone's thoughts discussing the pros/cons/usefulness of collecting a little more info on joined dwellings.

Part of Loomio's functionality is to raise a proposal that everyone can vote on, so we get some numbers for/against and better understand what our commonalities are.

Thanks @rodmchugh for indicating you would like to know about private dwellings in retirement villages.

Also, would 'licence to occupy' information be helpful? Do you use tenure of household or tenure holder information?

I too would like info about people living in retirement villages - and have written elsewhere on Loomio about that.
I am most interested though in having more information about use of residential aged care (rest homes, geriatric hospitals etc). At present the country relies on Ministry of Health estimates that are based on subsidy payments data. Many people pay for themselves, especially in lower levels of care, because the value of their assets is above the threshold.
The resulting estimates are difficult to verify. An independent source of information about use of residential care, and the people living there, is important to have.
I ask not so much for more or different information to be collected, but that that information is more available, ie that more tables are produced describing those living in residential aged care.
I'm interested too in where people usually live who are in residential care temporarily (and those from residential care temporarily away eg in hospital) on census night, but am not sure where that suggestion belongs. Cheers, & thanks for the opportunity to make my suggestions.

Hi @Joanna thanks for joining the discussion! I would like to better understand what information people need regarding non-private dwellings (occupied dwellings that are deemed 'communal' are further classified, for example, as hotel, hospital, boarding house).

If this is useful, please share why, as it will be more difficult to collect this.

And are you interested in being able to identify private dwellings in retirement villages?

Hi everyone!
A proposal has just been started: One category is changed in the question which collects the number of storeys.

You can find it, and vote, at the top right of this page.
Proposals are being used to try and sum up the discussion and get a quick snapshot on what people’s views on this issue currently are. Proposals are a way of not only checking where everyone is at with their thinking but drawing more people into the discussion. You can find a guide of how to use proposals here.
Proposals are not being used in the 2018 Census engagement discussion as a final decision making tool.

The proposal closes on Wed 3 June at 5pm. However the discussion stays open until the 10th of June.

Happy long weekend!

I would like to know how the census accounts for homeless people. Not just those living on the streets but others who live in cars, garages, motels etc. If a car is being used as a dwelling, shouldn't this be included too?

Hi Clare, All theses situations you refer to are included in the count of severe housing deprivation (or 'homelessness) - please see here: http://www.statisphere.govt.nz/further-resources-and-info/official-statistics-research/series/2013/severe-housing-deprivation.aspx

Thanks for the info Kate.

Best regards

Claire

Why does there have to be a predefined range on the form? Surely it would be easy to simply enter the number of storeys and then later analysis can create a distribution?

Hi @clairewannamaker @kateamore @shanefield great to have you here :-)
Kate, thanks for posting your work!
Claire, a link will be posted tomorrow for the homeless information published on our website.

Hi everyone, thanks for participating in the proposal!

First of all we want to get agreement or not that there is a need to collect information on high rises? ... if there isn't, we don't need to change the question.

If we do need to collect more relevant information here, then how would the categories be altered?

The suggested four and nine were chosen to minimise change from the 2013 Census – if people want to track information over time?

I agree that 'ten or more' probably only relates to Auckland and Wellington Cities currently. Eight has been suggested -- would '4-7' and '8+' be better?

Are there building requirements that we could align with?

The suggested write-in box is likely to reduce data quality: *Picking a range (ie marking a category) is generally considered an easier task than specifying a number.
*Plus the written numbers need to be captured (using optical character recognition) which may introduce errors and will increase the processing cost.
So there would need to be some compelling reasons to change.

More discussion needed ... please share!

I understand that a write-in is more difficult to score, so I wonder about a much larger set of boxes eg 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,10+ ?
If the aim is to move to an online census capturing numbers is not an issue and does not cost more. So I don't see that considerations of paper forms should be so dominant for future census counts, but I am not an expert in survey design.

I am just questioning adding a very few arbitrary breaks so that you cannot build a better distribution and create some natural breaks after the actual count. It seems to be aggregating the data before it is collected, rather than creating a summary after counting. Moving to a system that preserves individual responses instead of immediate aggregating to meshblock level surely allows better collection of actual numbers and distribution metrics that cannot be done with ranges.

For example you might create a different set of breaks for the metropolitan areas compared to provincial areas to make the breaks useful. Who knows until the survey is completed what the distribution is? Or a mean and standard deviation?

For low buildings any mezzanine half floors would skew the results. I see the notes discuss how to treat them, but that also hides them in the count using integers, which could be handled with a decimal eg 1.5 storeys.

In theory the number of storeys is able to be extracted from the valuation rolls in Record D. There is a field for NumberOfFloors that is completely empty! Or one could divide the recorded Building Floor or MainFloor by the totalFloor areas to get an indirect estimate.

So I did that, and for a provincial region there is almost nothing above 2.5 storeys. So the current question is a waste of time for them. I have not got a metropolitan roll to hand to see if that is any better.

Hi @clairewannamaker
People who are homeless are included in the census. Cars being used as a dwelling are included in the ‘improvised dwelling or shelter’ category in the occupied dwelling type data. This category also includes garages and sheds.

Information on people living in various types of non-private (communal) dwellings such as motels and boarding houses is also available from the census data on occupied dwelling type. Motels are included in the ‘hotel, motel, or guest accommodation’ category.

The 2013 Census QuickStats about Housing and accompanying tables includes some information about use of these types of dwellings. A report called ‘living outside the norm’ that is being released on 7 July will provide additional information about people living in communal dwellings, improvised dwellings, motor camps, and mobile dwellings.
I hope this is helpful.

Hi @kimollivier, interesting number crunching you've done.

Agree that collecting information with greater detail rather than "arbitrary breaks" would make the data more useful, but we also prioritise variables overall.
I also take your point about a digital census reducing processing costs of handling write-in responses, but the intention is that the digital and paper forms will look fairly similar. To be honest, I doubt that the question would be changed as you've suggested, given it would make it more difficult for people to correctly count the number of storeys (than picking a range) and this reduces the data quality, and would take more space on the page.

So then everyone, we want to sort out what arbitrary breaks would be best, and also get into some discussion about homelessness needs, and private dwellings in retirement villages.
What issues do we need to enlighten?

Good morning everyone, we've woken up to one of the coldest mornings on record (-20degC in Pukaki near Aoraki Mt Cook). This may have been a cold and difficult night for those NZers who are homeless.

Who has looked at social outcomes for homeless people or those with inadequate housing?

I would like to open up some discussion here, so please share if you've looked at this information before, and let us know what is needed.

Note that next Tues 30 June is when this Loomio consultation finishes and submissions are due.

Please share!

I would be very keen to see some provision for collection information on those living in retirement villages. Those who have purchased a Licence to Occupy are rapidly increasing so it would be good to capture figures on this group.

Hi @robynjohnston1 thanks for joining our discussion! Would be great to hear how you're using this information so we can better meet needs.

Hi Tina,

I am looking at the wellbeing of retirement village residents. There seems to be no information (that I can locate) about the number of people currently living
in retirement villages in NZ who have a licence to occupy. I would be very keen to have the current number of these people and to be able to track how this is increasing over the years to come? It is my understanding that currently this group is seen to be
living independently in the community as a large portion of the group live in Townhouse/Villa/Apartment accommodation so are living independently. Then there are those that have a licence to occupy and live in serviced apartment, resthome, studio and assorted
other names where the accommodation includes some services from the village. This is often in the form of at least one meal right through to showering, medications, housekeeping, personal laundry etc. Ideally it would be good to know the numbers of these subgroups
within the licence to occupy group.

Regards

Robyn

PhD Candidate

School of Health Sciences

University of Canterbury

Private Bag 4800

Christchurch 8140

Mobile: (027) 2828 449

Ph: (03)343 9606 ex.43229

Hi everyone, thanks for your participation!
I would say we've got: keen interest for retirement village information; some interest in distinguishing between low- and high-rise buildings but not what a meaningful break-point would be; and no clear requests for homeless information.

We'll keep you posted with the outcomes of the consultation.

Thanks again :-)
Tina