Customizing yes / no / block / abstain text

Hi! Yes this is already in the backlog, feel free to vote it up: https://trello.com/c/KM1cupt1

@jameskiesel, this is something people have been bringing up a lot recently! Totally agree it could be an easy win for substantially expanding the flexibility of the tool. @alanna do you have any sense of where might be a sensible point along the roadmap to put energy into this sort of feature dev?

I was thinking about doing it myself this week. :)

If @jamesmccann want to work on, that would be awesome!

Sorry @jamesmccann I meant to tag @jameskiesel :)

@sirwumpus - continuing discussion from the sybil attack discussion.
My opinion is that by default, Loomio should "ship" with just 3 voting options (agree, neutral, disagree) and leave it up to the specific groups to customize the number, look and labeling of the voting options.

@alexanderzatko so to be clear, I think you are saying that the default "block" option causes more harm (in the form of confusion due to differing assumptions about what it means) than good (in the form of utility for decision making) for a new group. Would that be an accurate summary?

@sirwumpus I believe that's what @alexanderzatko is saying, and if so, I concur.

@sirwumpus well put my friend :-)

@gregorycassel What does 'block' mean to you? In Occupy it meant that the group CANNOT pass the proposal, on Loomio I think -- after people have tried to clarify for me -- that it means 'strongly disagree'.

Hi @elimisteve, we've actually had a couple of discussions about this very subject in the Loomio Community. Here's a recent one - you might be interested in taking a look :)

@hannahsalmon Thanks. That's a lot of blocks, ha.

Apple is 700 billion USD company because they make stuff you do not need to study (explain) to operate. The fact that you need to explain what "Block" is good for is violating that principle. My hunch is that most new folks coming to Loomio will need to be educated about "Block".

See this discussion (thanks @hannahsalmon) for this very same discussion, as well as many different definitions of 'block' in people's dissenting votes, both disagrees and blocks:

https://www.loomio.org/d/xPyUG8tE/why-the-distinction-between-disagree-and-block?proposal=kIWKYLOB

Maybe the Block bottom should be optional when creating new proposal.

This serves different governance models

I agree @elimisteve that 'block' is a confusing concept for newcomers, and that even for consensus veterans it may mean varying things. I prefer a generic concept of 'strongly disagree' which each group can deal with however they want.

One could argue that 'Stop' or 'Strongly Disagree', with a strong red color and a palm-out icon, would be a more appropriate generic term than 'Block'.

'Stop' indicates that people need to, well, stop and at least listen. 'Block' has more of a fixed feel to it IMO.

@BenBurton Define 'Block' when, and where? Can you think of a clearer name for whatever 'Block' means to you? See @alexanderzatko's important comment above; clarity is really important!

@matthewmcnatt What does 'Block' mean to you? How can we better explain it?

@elimisteve One example of how Loomio tells users what "Block" means is here:

http://blog.loomio.org/2012/03/20/what-is-a-block/

For those of you who think Block is important and that it's confusing to new-comers, check out this new discussion suggesting that we educate new users as to what "Block" means so they can use Loomio effectively: https://www.loomio.org/d/KTetC5k3/idea-new-users-should-be-told-what-block-ing-a-proposal-is

There have been many rich discussions in this community about what block means...

https://www.loomio.org/d/xPyUG8tE/why-the-distinction-between-disagree-and-block

https://www.loomio.org/d/R6Ml74gE/using-a-block

I think we should harvest the wisdom expressed by our community in these discussions and put it into some kind of help page

The idea to allow customisation of the 4 position labels is in the backlog: https://trello.com/c/KM1cupt1

I should start paying more attention to Trello. Thanks @alanna for effectively directing traffic!

@elimisteve, I think

"Disagree" means: This is not the direction I want our group to go. I want my disagreement to be noted by the group. I want my reasoning to be addressed as we discuss this proposal. If the group chooses to take this action over my disagreement, however, I may still participate in the action. I won't actively undermine it. I still certainly want to be a part of this group, regardless of the outcome of this decision.

"Block" means: The proposed course of action risks severely harming the group, our mission, or myself if it passes, and I think I can explain why. I don't want us to continue to discuss this proposal until my paramount objection is addressed. If the group chooses to proceed over my paramount objection, I will have to abstain from our collective action. I may actively oppose it. (In some cases, a group's choice to act despite a paramount objection may even drive a member from the group.)

Thank you, @matthewmcnatt.

Those are powerful definitons, @matthewmcnatt . Thanks much for sharing!

no worries @gregorycassel - I'm planning to do a big cleanup of the Roadmap board soon so it's easier to understand

I think "Block" adds to the group decision making process. A "yes / no / abstain" or "agree / disagree / abstain" is limiting and it may be possible depending on which "outcome mechanism" the group chooses to miss something potentially damaging to the group or group member that was buried in the comments of a member who disagreed with a discussion or proposal.

"Block" to me says "Hold on a minute, this is something we need to address, or we can't afford to overlook this"

It should be a red flag to the group that something is wrong or needs to be fixed and is difficult to miss in the votes of a large group. I would hope that members use it very sparingly but think it is appropriate that it is there.

Perhaps some discussions or proposals will not require it and this could be addressed using "voting customization" or a "voting plugin" on a per group or per proposal basis.

I had to use locking in the next proposal:

• Should we unsubscribe, of this tool people who do not actively using ?
• Propose to remove a person as a user of loomio, but continuing as a member of the group.
• Clearly it is technically impossible

https://www.loomio.org/d/iR4xzdp9/preborrador-organizativo?proposal=Cezp7skS

Two features we are missing. I apologize if these were discussed previously:
1. “bid driven” proposal, where each member has a limited pool of points that she/he can allocate across various options?
2. Selection between specific options and not just agree or disagree? or did I miss something?

@shacharradinshomra - for number 1, check out Cobudget. Right now it's based on "bidding" with dollars, but a version for bidding with points is being worked on as well. It's a sister-app to Loomio and we'll be working on some kind of plugin integration early 2015.

For #2, this has been discussed a lot - see the links on this card in roadmap backlog.