Should we run a Matrix server?

Thanks for your perspective, @Danyl Strype. This is really helpful context for me. I know MayFirst.coop, which has stalwartly stuck with XMPP, is now exploring Matrix finally as well.

FWIW, I have been running Synapse on my lab's server for a few years with no problems, maintained with Cloudron. But that is a smaller user-base.

It's also telling that there already is a Social.coop conversation happening on Matrix, using a Matrix.org space (which is featured on the main info page of our Loomio space). Clearly people in this community find utility in it.

Given this conversation about extra funds, I wonder if folks from the Tech Working Group could ballpark a sense of what additional funds would be needed to support a Matrix server. I'm not actually sure who is a member these days...

I just wrote a load of stuff related to this in the social coop tech chat room on matrix

Ill spare everyone me reposing it here.

Can read it over there at

https://matrix.to/#/!akkaZImONyQWKswVdt:matrix.org/$1665444472150394ZaVfj:matrix.org?via=matrix.org&via=autonomic.zone&via=pub.solar

Or

#socialcoop-tech:matrix.org

It took me some effort to find your comment after clicking that matrix.to link. A summary of your key points here would be helpful if you have time to post one.

An eJabberD server might be a good option, once the matrix protocol support is added to the free code Community Edition:

https://www.process-one.net/blog/matrix-protocol-added-to-ejabberd/

I don't know others, but for me would be helpful to evaluate this proposal what is it's objective. Is it only to have a chat base for our community or are there other things too? If other, what other objectives we (can) have? Are we pointing to provide what services, if that is knowable/discussable now? For example, could we provide some private groups too? What about interoperatibility, or future migrations?

Sorry if these questions seems obvious to all of you, but since I'm new and this is a bit out of my waters, this could be a way to help to help. :)

Best...

I defer to others that are more intimately aware of the tech and politics around Matrix, and sorry if this is off-topic but I'm curious if anyone can comment on why Matrix (or maybe more specifically synapse) is so costly and difficult to maintain?

Re: purpose - different mediums have different purposes and support different kinds of interactions. Eg. we are here as opposed to masto because it's easier to have longform, structured, discoverable conversations across the whole instance. I see a chatroom as having non-overlapping purpose with the masto instance and here as a more ephemeral way of communicating within instance. I think one think we can do better as a co-op is intra-coop cohesion, and currently I don't know of a good way to shoot the shit with y'all. Loomio feels very formal, seeing as how it is the governance mechanism and all, and there has been limited uptake in the guppe group.

I don't have a strong preference of any particular implementation over another, but I also would like to be able to use this as my home instance, particularly if it's possible for me to start my own "rooms" eg. for projects that I'm a part of where I can invite some collaborators to talk without needing to use eg. gitter or start my own server. From what I understand about Matrix/Element that should be possible (question mark?) but also thinking more broadly about our engagement with the larger decentralized social world I think it would be lovely to show up and build more of a cohesive community together :)

Yes, I think you should be able to do that in a Matrix instance we run—create your own spaces. But that does raise the question of purpose. Is the goal to provision Matrix for Social.coop members to use in their lives in whatever ways? (In which case, why not just use Matrix.org, which is free?) Or is it just for Social.coop business?

As much as I love Matrix, I guess I'm starting to lean against this.

this, to me is a pretty good reason, in line with general decentralization principles :)

@Nathan Schneider Do we use the social.coop Mastodon instance only for social.coop business? I think most of use it in lots of ways that aren't directly related to the ongoing work of social.coop?

If there were a social.coop Matrix server I would likely want to use it to connect to all the channels I'm currently in (not just in social.coop space). But maybe we would want to have some rules around the types of channels that could be created and hosted directly at social.coop and who could create them?

This proposal also has some overlap with the current proposal to join MayFirst as they already host chat services. It may be worth considering whether it's worth having the duplication with MayFirst if we do in fact become an organizational member. More info: https://www.loomio.com/p/Cr9mG76W