Separating group rules from other decisions

I have thought about new members who want to participate in an existing group, or members who are only sometimes active. I think they have a hard time figuring out the rules which the group has given itself, in order to then know how to participate correctly to the group (make proposals of the right duration, create discussions in the right group/subgroup, know wether the subject they want to talk about is not out of scope, etc).

The solution I see now, using the current loomio features, is the combination of the following:

• Put in a dedicated subgroup (for example "Internal rules") the discussions which created decisions about the internal functionning of the group. This way, group members can go to this group and go to the decisions section, and see all the decisions which have been taken about the functionning of the group. So as they are in chronological order, they can figure out which decisions replace others.

• Put in the description of the group a link to a webpage which contains the constantly updated and human-readable set of rules which the group has given to itself.

Loomio is currently totally agnostic about that, and so it enables groups all kinds of ways to organize themselves. I guess loomio is agnostic partly because it was not a priority and it is partly intentionnaly for simplicity/freedom. But maybe we could find ways to help groups on this problem, make some optional feature which could help.

I have no specific proposal of solution to improve loomio about that, but just some ideas:

• We could simply provide a help section about that (in https://www.loomio.org/help ). This would explain several methodologies we have all thought about (return of experience).
• We could create a specific field/page/section/subgroup which would be a bit like the group's "description" section, but dedicated to the internal rules. So it could help coordinators who are not really at ease with the internet or have no website/wiki. They would not need to have the idea/skill to put a link to a distant URL in the description of the group, they could instead put their human-readable set of rules (written from the decisions taken) in this specific field/page/section/subgroup.

I love the idea of a research project looking at some of the different rule sets groups use to govern themselves on loomio.

I see two parts here, both important.

1) we could provide some guidance or training to help groups set the right protocols for them, and clarify key points in terms of how they make decisions.

2) the group page needs a place to share this information once it's been decided by the group. I think the group joining text will help a lot, but I also see a need for a redesigned group page with more space for group info, documentation, etc.

I'm not sure that rules should necessarily be decided by the group. A group is set up for making decisions and rules could already be in place... including who is to administer the group and how.
For Loomio, providing optional tools that encourage groups to govern their processes remains appropriately agnostic. In my view each group should be encouraged to make their own unique rules as part of the process of setting up the group. There will be participants who need to know what is quorum, or what is a counter-proposal, or what is a block. Such definitions could be unique to the group and do not undermine democratic process. Through later discussion the group could always change these but rules provide the foundation for the way the group operates. Potential participants can always decide for themselves whether the rules are appropriate and whether they wish to participate.
I'd just ask that there is an interface that facilitates and encourages optional group rules. Not just stated on the invite either but clearly linked or hovered to…
Group Rules >>

It's an important point you're making @deansatchell - actually I've found one of the most interesting effects of a group using Loomio is that they have to explicitly answer some questions about their decision making protocols which otherwise might not have been clear (who is involved, what a proposal passing means, what disagreement means).

I don't think there's anything stopping groups from using Loomio as it is now to have those conversations and agree their protocols. Just use normal discussions, and then link to a document or discussion in the group description that lays out those policies. We'll slowly improve the user experience around this over time, but right now the core functionality is already achievable.