I think its really important that the mission statement reflect actual priorities of Iceland Pirates (based on Andrew's initial point that they face the possibility of having to accept or a decline government leadership or participation without plausible economic and other "general" policies).

So I assume that the focus would be on the connection between their popularity based on a much greater focus on participatory democracy and transparency than other parties (both Icelandic parties and international pirate parties) and their (currently underdeveloped) other "general" policies.

This is likely to be significantly different from a mission statement that would be drafted by others in view of international focus still centred around "information" issues in parties that have not made transparancy and participatory democracy as central a focus and do not face any possibility of leading or participating in government.

Anyway, I think it is essential that they take the lead in drafting mission statement as well as other critical aspects, also taking into account their own understanding of Iceland legal situation rather than assumptions by others.

Sufficient for some well known leaders like Samri to endorse a draft and conduct informal discussions with other Icelanders who should be consulted.

But we should give feedback on improvements in a first draft already acceptable to them, rather than initiating first draft.

Maybe the mission statement is different from the research program?

As I see it a mission statement should be short and should focus on the long term ideas of the global pirate movement and its relationship with practical government. Its purpose is to create organizational identity and brand awareness.

A research program on the other hand would be a longer document guiding the effort in a shorter time perspective and would have a strong focus on what the icelandic pirate party needs help with, at least during the time from now to their next election.

True, but "long term ideas of the global pirate movement and its relationship with practical government" does not yet really exist.

Global pirate movement currently does not have long term ideas at all related to practical government.

Iceland's central focus on transparency and participatory democracy and resulting popularity has global implications that have not yet been digested elsewhere. They are in the best position to write a brief mission statement as well as longer research program. Others simply don't have the same political experience to do so.

Outside Iceland, "practical government" is simply not something pirates have had to think about much since there has been no such possibility.

It has only recently become a possibility in Iceland. I hope that will result in a CHANGE for the better in "long term ideas of the global pirate movement" and a think tank with a mission tightly focused on the need for economic and other policies relevant to practical government can contribute to that globally in addition to the more important global contribution made by it helping the only pirate party that is currently politically relevant to remain so.

eg mission statement that mentions economic policy - now essential for Iceland - can also help orient global pirates to actually present serious alternative mechanisms for funding creative works in addition to having pointed out the absurdity of current copyright mechanisms.

"Global pirate movement currently does not have long term ideas at all related to practical government."

Agree, but that's exactly the purpose of a Think Tank, to create it. Both the long term ideas and how those relate to practical government. If it doesn't it becomes a campaign center or some kind of educational institution depending on its focus. My point is that we need to set the goal high enough to make it interesting for people. Because if we don't it wont really be helping anyone, and certainly not the icelanders.

To set the goal high enough is the purpose of the mission statement.

That said, it might be that what Smari is actually after in his document is not really a Think Tank but a training center for pirate governments.

And maybe that is actually more interesting? It could be a place where we organize government training simulation games instead of creating political theory. Or maybe both?

Having a (successful) pirate government or even a majority party that makes world headlines by refusing to govern as a result of its political judgment rather than its incapacity is a really incredibly high goal with enormous implications for the rest of the world even if it first happens in a very small country.

I don't think these implications have sunk in yet. When they do people will certainly find them more interesting than the usual generalities of mission statements.

I think Samri really is after a think tank, not a training center (though there would naturally be overlap and therefore "both"). They already have IMMI with functions as a training center and campaign organization (overlapping think tank related to global pirate focus on information issues).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Modern_Media_Institute

Also Samri is CTO of a research organization based outside Iceland.

What they don't have is a think tank on policies for practical government, needed now that they have suddenly become the largest party.

You learn to swim by swimming and likewise for governing. But relevant theory for governing needs to happen fast and while staff work cannot substitute for transparant mass participation it can make a real difference to getting people involved and making their involvement more productive.

They need concrete policies and they need them now - and they are in the best position to state the mission they need support for.

Birgitta was convincing in describing a role as annoying mosquito buzzing in the room. But as she really does want to "help them collapse" they will need a lot more than buzzing.

Ok, so in the post 2017 election situation there is no need for a mission statement. But for fundraising in the year 2015 we need something that helps with the fundraising. And whatever it is it needs to be very interesting for a large international audience otherwise we will be limited to only Icelandic sponsors. The best would be if its even interesting for non pirate party members, but a broader political spectrum. That would make it a lot easier to raise the funds.

In Smari's doc this section is the Mission Statement part.

"Founding a policy think thank oriented around Pirate politics is a good idea. There is a lack of good analytical research constructed around information politics. Entire topic areas are virtually unexplored, including but not limited to economic policy, industrial policy, healthcare, welfare and agriculture. These topic areas need to be developed with regards to information politics, in addition to furthering research in fields where Pirate parties have shown strength, such as international trade, intellectual monopoly rights, and civil liberties."

This is rather good as it is and I think our focus should be on improving it further.

The first sentence might be better as "Founding a policy think thank oriented around Pirate politics is a much needed next step for the Pirate movement. "

It also needs an end.

Like "The Sunstone Project aims to found that much needed think tank."

The whole mission statement would then be:

"Founding a policy think thank oriented around Pirate politics is a much needed next step for the Pirate movement. There is a lack of good analytical research constructed around information politics. Entire topic areas are virtually unexplored, including but not limited to economic policy, industrial policy, healthcare, welfare and agriculture. These topic areas need to be developed with regards to information politics, in addition to furthering research in fields where Pirate parties have shown strength, such as international trade, intellectual monopoly rights, and civil liberties.

The Sunstone Project aims to found that much needed think tank."

Maybe it should also include a sentence that mention new emergent futures oriented topic areas where there is a general lack of policy even outside the pirate movement?

Such topics might help the Pirate parties worldwide to stay relevant and be regarded as government capable.

Such topics are for exampel:
Participatory democracy and transparency based governing
Democratic defence against hybrid warfare during peacetime
Energy system policy in a world where the dominant energy sources are sun and wind

Th whole statement could be like:

""Founding a policy think thank oriented around Pirate politics is a much needed next step for the Pirate movement. There is a lack of good analytical research constructed around information politics.

Entire topic areas are virtually unexplored, including but not limited to economic policy, industrial policy, healthcare, welfare and agriculture. These topic areas need to be developed with regards to information politics, in addition to furthering research in fields where Pirate parties have shown strength, such as international trade, intellectual monopoly rights, and civil liberties.

Another issue is new emergent futures oriented topic areas where there is a general lack of policy even outside the pirate movement. Such topics might be participatory democracy and transparency based governing, democratic defence against hybrid warfare during peacetime, energy system policy in a world where the dominant energy sources are sun and wind. Or others we cannot currently foresee but will become important. To take a lead in such topic areas might help the Pirate parties worldwide to stay relevant in the long term and be regarded as government capable.

The Sunstone Project aims to found that much needed think tank."

1. Strongly agree that it needs to interest a large international audience, including a much broader spectrum than members of pirate party.

I would say "especially" non members rather than "even" non-members.

But so far the Iceland pirates are the only ones who really DO appeal to a wider spectrum and do not think of non members as "even nonmembers". So they can best state the mission.

BTW I am not a member of any pirate party and am here precisely because they have that appeal to a much wider spectrum. Although I am not in any sense representative of that broader spectrum it does help me see things better as an "outsider" as well as meaning I may not
understand many things about pirate politics that are seen by insiders.

1. The paragraph in Samri's document confirms that he should write first draft. Naturally that will be an improvement on that paragraph and their first first draft can be improved further by input from here. But immediately we start to extend the existing non-draft, it starts to look weaker and less relevant to me.

" Entire topic areas are virtually unexplored, including but not limited to economic policy, industrial policy, healthcare, welfare and agriculture."

That is what global pirate party members need to join the wider spectrum in understanding.

Adding on such things as "energy system policy in a world where the dominant energy sources are sun and wind" immediately turns away from "practical government".

There are already much larger Green parties that emphasize that. In Iceland where geothermal is abundant and the sun does not shine much for months at a time they have been largely wiped out by the pirates who do not spout such stuff.

PS In earlier post I meant to include a link to the research (and training) institution outside Iceland that Samri is CTO of together with the link I did include for IMMI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_Crime_and_Corruption_Reporting_Project

Worth looking at to note the direct conections with mass based democratic revolution worldwide, also flowing quite naturally from "information politics" as well as the widespread revulsion against corrupt governing parties that was central to Iceland crisis and is rapidly growing in other developed countries.

Actually it's not a green party issue. Green parties are intent on getting the energy system to become based on primarily sun and wind. But what's happening right now is that the market forces have taken over and is driving that change for mostly economic reasons. And when you look at how the world will work when the energy system is converted it looks very different. For one thing almost everything will have a smart rechargeable battery, because electricity will be intermittent and extremely volatile in price. Which also means there will be smart grids everywhere and huge amounts of information transferred about usage, storage levels, prices, where something is connected and where it last was connected, who owns it and so on... All this essentially turns the energy-system into information politics. Which is a typical pirate issue. And since the energy system revolution is just starting for real and will be finished in just 20 years it will have a lot to do with practical government during this period. Also on Iceland, where a transition to battery/electrical propulsion systems for cars and ships will improve the trade balance tremendously, and at the same time create transition problems for society as a whole and especially for government. And to not make the transition is not a choice since it's market forces driving the change. It's basically a perfect storm just about to hit every government on earth.

Early on I mentioned that I thought the need for policy analysis was so urgent that it start immediately while think tank may wait longer. See point 2 of my comment on the initial announcement at:

https://discuss.pirateint.org/t/exploritory-group-to-establish-a-support-organisation-for-ppis-in-iceland/119

I will be happy to join discussions of both energy policy and climate policy and will join immediately if Rasmus wishes to start one now (in a more publicly accessible forum like above site).

But it would clearly be a diversion to debate those issues here in this thread so unless it is seriously proposed to include that stuff in a mission statement I will refrain from explaining why I strongly disagree with EVERYTHING Rasmus just said about energy policy.

(But I cannot restrain myself from parenthetically remarking that anyone who believes Greenie claims that currently foreseeable battery technology will be relevant to grid power simply needs to study energy issues before making policy on them).

I wasn't part of the process in the earlier discussions :) Although I agree with all of those points you mentioned there,

About energy policy, it's not my intention to discuss it but I used it as an example of an important futures topic area. And I think its important that such topic areas are mentioned as areas of interest in a mission statement.

Btw my statement about energy-systems wasn't about energy policy but a look at the subject from a futures research perspective. I happen to run a company that does futures research and strategy development for situations of disruptive change. And I hope I was clear that I wasn't talking about grid electricity when I said everything will have a battery. I was however talking about grid electricity when I stated that electricity will be intermittent and extremely volatile in price. Batteries will be the consumer level way to deal with this. Grid owner might as well just shoot themselves before the storm hits.

A lot of really good points guys. Reading through it leads me to think we need two mission statements.
1. for the fund raising campaign
2. for the setting up phase
The first one should be short and emphasizing what we see Sunstone doing an its appeal to Pirates and beyond. Stress the wide range of people who would benefit from it

The second would be more elaborate and would be to attract talent fo run it and staff the advisory board - that should have a good number of non pirates

I wrote up a draft of a fundraising mission statement - WDYT?

Sunstone is a project to set up an international think tank that will primarily seek to apply Pirate Party principles to international and national policy areas. How do transparency, civil and digital rights and participatory democracy, for example, fit into foreign affairs, economic and social welfare policies. Each country is different and while no solution will fit all cases, generic policy development will enable country specific solutions to be created more easily. It should also have a fellowship programme, to provide funding to scholars and academics to conduct research on specific topics.

It is not only Pirate Parties that are interested in implementing Pirate based policies. Therefore Sunstone will be open to collaboration with other organisations and parties and the output is intended to be licensed under Creative Commons making it available to all.

Who will benefit from the work Sunstone will be doing?

• Whistle-blowers - protection for whistle blowers is essential where governments and public agencies are not transparent.
• Content creators – the copyright system is in need of reform as the current system benefits the corporations at the expense of ordinary artists and creators.
• Digital users – surveillance and the wholesale harvesting by intelligence agencies and
• Direct Democracy supporters – most Pirate Parties support various forms of increased participation of citizens in the democratic process.
• UBI supporters – poverty is the enemy of a free democratic process.
• Educators – an educated populace is essential to open political discourse.
• Privacy proponents – mass surveillance is not conducive to free discussion
• Freedom of information advocates – the people must be able to access information to be able to make free and informed decisions

Once Sunstone is operational it will have a global remit but initially it will be concentrating on assisting the Pirate Party of Iceland. The small party needs to formulate polices in anticipation of it playing a much larger role in the government that will follow the 2017 elections. If elections were held now then polls indicate it would be the Pirate Party of Iceland would be the biggest in the Athingi – the Icelandic parliament.

1. Too long.

2. Too verbose (separate problem - sub-editing always needed and easily done in later drafts, too hard for authors to do themselves).

3. Explicit mention of pirate "parties" and of Pirate Party of Iceland may exacerbate potential political and legal problems with outsiders influencing Icelandic politics. (I don't know - only Icelanders could know).

4. As I feared, natural tendency of global pirates drafting is too much emphasis on what is already understood by them which means too little on what must be learned about "practical government"

5. NB this cannot be justified on basis that donations more likely for what people already understand. Even if true, we have to be transparent about what funds are actually needed for. Also actually also not true - donations less likely for more of the same. Appeal is for something important and new.

6. Although this is less absurd than advocating personal batteries that only reinforces my believe that draft is best done by Icelanders first. Not a personal difficulty but inherently necessary due to really qualitatively different experience and understanding there.

Off the cuff unedited attempt:

"Emerging from the global pirate movement, advocates of transparency and participatory democracy have recently become the largest political party in Iceland and may lead or participate in the next government. Funds are needed for a think tank, based in Iceland, but mobilizing transparent global participation in research and discussion, for global pirates to study policies for "practical government". Many new topics, which pirates may disagree about, including practical economic, industrial, healthcare, welfare and agriculture policies for pirates in government."

All good points.

1&2 Certainly too long but it will be different in various media - Indegogo, web page, social media etc. each will need to be adaptions

3 The legal position has been cleared by Herbert Snorrason. As to the possibility of political ramifications that would be unlikely in the current circumstances. If everything was done by them it could also be seen as problematic. Perhaps @evathuridardottir could comment.
The explicit mentioning of PPIS is one of the greatest selling points we have. Both for Pirates and non Pirates.

3(b) This is the second reason for the think tank to develop policy in areas where we are weak or have none

4 We cannot be totally transparent about everything that Sunstone will do as that will be decided the future board members. Structure and canvassing people is the next step.

1&2) Mission statement for fundraising should provide a focus that helps avoid "adaptations" from drifting too far apart. Desirable that it be short enough to repeat in most adaptations.

3a.1) Yes, views of Eva, Herbert and any other icelanders available very important. BTW I did not read Herbert's comments on your initial proposal as "clearing" anything legally (requires fully briefed lawyers) and far from suggesting political problems "unlikely" I read him as saying the opposite.

3a.2) Yes popularity of Iceland Pirate Party is biggest reason to donate. There may be a way to make that more explicit than I did without problems. But putting it at the front is more emphasis than spelling out the name at the end.

3b). (Thanks for fixing my duplicate numbering of 3). I don't understand your reference to "second reason". My understanding is that "to develop policy in areas where we are weak or have none" is THE reason. If you have a different "first" reason, please spell it out briefly. (If it was to "channel funds to help them get elected" that of course could not be spelled out but neither should it be attempted).

1. Generic statements about not being able to always act transparently are opaque. Mission statement for funding must clearly and accurately state what the funding is for. It is natural for there to be disagreement about that. But such disagreements need to be discussed and resolved so that potential donors are clear. I certainly won't donate to the mission of "future board members". Who would?

Anyone else want to try their hand please go ahead and we can pick the best out of them

I think Andrews version is rather good. But it certainly would be interesting to see several more efforts. It will move the processes forward much faster than a theoretical discussion about principles for who, what and why.

I will try to work on this over the next few days... I'm thinking we need two statements; one quite short and snappy that is what people see up front, and another slightly longer and more explicative. It's really important that any up-front statement is about what Sunstone is for, not what it is not. Trying to define oneself by what one is not is not good marketing or policy. :)

Sunstone is about what we want to build, not what we want to tear down or not be like.
I hope I am making sense, I feel rather brain-dead.

A slogan would not be a bad idea either

"Pirates in Government?"

(intentionally ending a slogan with ? instead of!)

?

Preparing Pirates for Parliaments

I like that -- and not just for the alliteration. :)

Pirates for Parliament.
Its Raining Pirates.

Jelena's Life is either a great adventure or nothing. Is not bad either - getting quite a few shares from the FB page

There has been some stirrings in Iceland in reaction to PPIS policies and pronouncements. Pornography and fishing quotas are the most recent. This has drawn attacks from the government and its backers which fall along the following lines:

• Populism
• Counter to government promoted values
• Not Icelandic (because the name in not Icelandic)
• Lack of policies

The first two are fluff and appeal to die hard supporters of the government but the last two concern us directly.
We have to balance these two somehow

http://stundin.is/frett/piratar-valda-titringi-med-rottaekri-sjavarutvegss/

Google translation shows above requires login to read:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=is&u=http://stundin.is/frett/piratar-valda-titringi-med-rottaekri-sjavarutvegss/&prev=search

Could somebody (else) please copy here translated version after login.

BTW if anyone knows a better free automated translation service than google's please link that here too.

Re slogan. I like "Preparing Pirates for Parliament" better than other 3 proposed so far.

As I understand it "slogan" actually refers to something like a "motto" that might be included on letterhead, in logo and be generally promoted in publications.

"Preparing Pirates" reminds of the purpose of the think tank.

My suggestion of "Pirates in Government?" is more suitable for whimsy in carrying a slogan on a placard at demonstrations and doesn't really work long term as a motto.

For the other two I think "Pirates for Parliament" is too much like an (empty) election slogan and "Its raining Pirates" also too whimsical for long term use.

But I would like to amend Andrew's version to:

"Preparing Pirates for Government".

Although "Parliament" is closer to where other pirate parties are now so might mean more to some in them, "Government" better reminds people of the central problem and the fact that where we are at now is unprepared for that situation currently unique to Iceland. (People can and do get represented in parliament without having serious policies and consider that worthwhile to "express themselves" and don't need a think tank to achieve it).

The Translation of the Stundin.is article

Pirate Party adopt radical fisheries and tremors

Pirate Party detected biggest in the polls. They want the quota will be offered up for rent on the open market and the rental income, which could be up to 40 billion a year flowing into the state treasury for use in the public interest. Populism, says MP from stjórnarliðinu.

Pirate Party have adopted radical fisheries quotas to be offered up for rent on the open market and the rent paid to the Treasury. "All power should go to the market to do business with fisheries products natural and improve the situation of fishermen, less seafood and other companies that work with derived products," the proposal submitted at the general meeting on 8 August and approved unanimously in the internet voting weekend.

Here you can read the policy as a whole than it would be implemented, it would result in major changes in the fisheries and would share the public dividend of fishing resources may increase substantially.

The strategy description Pirate stated that the party wants the national provision which the Constitutional wrote clause in the Constitution of Iceland. This will make sure that the resources are not privately owned will be "common and perpetual property of the nation." No receive resources possession or permanent use and may never be sold or mortgaged. Those who receive a license for the use or exploitation of resources will pay the full fee, the license will be granted non-discriminatory and reasonable period of time.
The market will be undertaken

Pirate Party explain auctioning in a statement accompanying the document. It says:

Fishing vessel operators themselves, through the actively bidding system, will decide how much fishing industry pays for the right to hunt. When the state decides fishing fees have Fishing vessel operators and their associations enormous interest in pushing the government, Hamas in public with propaganda and distorting its accounts with various methods to adjust the position so that the fishing industry appear to be badly liquidity and justify such requirements reduced fees. If they pay the market price formed on the open auction for fishing vessel operators eventually encourages it to move their accounts to the normal track, really show the operational and will lead to the normal capital formation in the industry. The fundamental is the amount of fishing fees form of auction. At such matters are handled can supply not claim that you are overcharging charges of the fisheries industry simply offer no higher than the industry rises under. No less important when fishing fees are inadequate challenging conditions will not be able to blame Fishing vessel operators of this same reason, the article simply pays no more than she can. In this way, the harmony in the society hunting fees, whether they are high or low from year to year.
40 billion rental?

New Pirate fisheries are somewhat consistent with the way Jon Steinsson, assistant professor of economics at Columbia University in the US, has spoken.

Jón Steinsson
Jón Steinsson economist at Columbia University

"I have long fought for the nation the full fee for the use of their fisheries resources. Simple and good market solution that would ensure it would auction the quotas, "he wrote recently in an article published in Fréttablaðið. He said the rental of quotas optimal revenues as Treasury demonstrations.

John notes that the current arrangements for fisheries affairs created the affluent class of shipowners and their wealth is largely arising from the privilege of a quota allocated far below market value. "These rights must be defended. They are about 40 billion worth annually. "

If the Treasury would receive 40 billion annually for the rental of quotas would be paid quickly down debt, reduce taxes and / or strengthen the welfare system to remember.
Róttækari one Samfylking and VG

With new Fisheries his walk Pirate Party a step further than the Left Green Movement, the Social Democrats and the bright future have made.

At last the Social Democrats was adopted employment policy stating that to be observed by the outcome of the referendum of 20 October 2012 on the national provisions and ensure that the people enjoy the dividends of fisheries resources. On the Facebook page, the Social Democrats today is celebrated the party receives reinforcements Pirate in fisheries and natural resources. "The new policy has essentially unanimous strategy for the Social Democrats to: 1. Get the market for harvest. 2. Take the resource provision proposed in the new draft constitution, "the statement of the party.

Left Green have long campaigned for the withdrawal and reallocation of quotas. According to the fisheries of the party would be part of the catch quotas reallocate the public rental market and part exchange to local and would be tied to these villages around the country.

Gudmundur Steingrímsson
Gudmundur Steingrímsson outgoing chairman of Bright Future Picture: Press Photos

"Failing just herslumuninn"

The Bright Future website states the following on fisheries:

"Making permanent settlement of fisheries based on four pillars: 1) dividends goes to the nation 2) utilization is sustainable 3) that the industry enjoys good conditions for viability and 4) to new entrants could enter the fisheries. * We want to believe that there is only herslumuninn in this and it must be possible, in good consultation with all parties to reach a conclusion which includes all of the. "

Having parliamentarians called for seeking market solutions to make this goal a reality.

Björn Valur Gíslason
Björn Valur Gíslason vice VG Picture: Press Photos

Route Pirate threaten small fishing villages

New fisheries Pirate has received a mixed reaction. Björn Valur Gíslason, vice president of the Left Greens, criticized the policy severely in an article on its website. "All power to the market in a system where pay" full price "for sources will in a very short time doing completely out of the small fishing village of the country that neither will be able to stand behind the" full charge "or choose what they pay for sources, "he writes, adding:" The rationale behind the "free" fishing jig fishing is "to have an excuse for new entrants to enter the fishery ..." without having to pay the owner Allowed deduction from lease? There are bad arguments for giving the fishing freely and free in limited resource. In short, it seems to me the Pirate Party have presented a strategy in fisheries where the "market" is dead on fisheries management. That alone is a bad trend. "
Call uppboðsleiðina popúlisma

Brynjar Níelsson MP Independence criticizes the policy differ markedly in terms of the status update on Facebook. "Finally, the Pirate Party agreed policy on fisheries. Some may ask, why they were the end of follow-third of the population without any major policy interests of the nation, "he writes, and asks:

Brynjar Níelsson
Brynjar Níelsson MP Independence

"Believe men to the interests of the fishing industry and the nation lies in some form of auction method? Then one must answer why everyone else is generally not with the auction method and also where returns fisheries more to the economy than in Iceland. You have, of course, no answer to the Pirate Party, like many others, are willing to sacrifice valuable business in the bottomless populism. So are all saying that the Progressive Party is populi tablets us. "
Breakthrough imminent

As is known, the Pirate Party have for months been detected largest party in the polls. Sigmund David Gunnlaugsson prime minister gave recently suggested, in an interview with DV, the Pirate Party was revolutionary party and would revolutionize the core values ​​of Icelandic society. He said that should the Pi stumbles had over 30 percent support, "it would take up a different kind of trend in society which may be difficult to maintain the values ​​that we have, however, been pursuing and building up for decades. "Hannes H. Gissurarson, political science professor and one of the main ideologue of Independence for many years, has questioned it on the Facebook page that the Pirate Party is Iceland.

Google, as far as I know are the only service to translate Icelandic

Thanks!

Sounds like a well thought through policy which has also given the Greens an opportunity to help themselves collapse by lining up with the other conservative parties.

I don't understand what Andrew means by :

"the last two concern us directly.
We have to balance these two somehow"

I do understand that the pirate opponents themes of 1. populism and 2. "values" are just "fluff"

The last two are:

1. Not Icelandic (because the name in not Icelandic)

2. Lack of policies

Article seems to illustrate that they don't have much of a problem with Iceland specific policies.

International involvement in think tank unlikely to be helpful on those.

Describing the mission as helping global pirates learn from their Icelandic experience in forming policies for "practical government" could help reduce the effectiveness of any pretence that internationally funded think tank based in Iceland shows their "non-Icelandic" character - as well as describing the real situation more accurately - we learn from them - not teach.

I do think general economic policy, as opposed to specific national issues like Icelandic fisheries quotas, are a common problem faced by all global pirates that will require lots of work in advance to minimize the splits inevitable when people who are bound to differ about such things suddenly confront them in government without having had lots of time to think about their differences and what they can still unite about.

@billkerr drew my attention to this link from facebook group:

It strikes me as both an impressive confirmation that they have a sound grasp of why they are popular and very important for this project:

http://icelandreview.com/news/2015/08/31/pirate-party-sets-sail-two-issues

To me this makes it very believable that they could actually lead a government after next elections (people angry at anti-demcratic behaviour of their opponents can elect them to correct this without worrying about what else they might do).

It also confirms that they will need clear policies for practical government to present at the election following their prospective "short term" (and that they know they will not be ready before then).

Now that the Icelanders have their GA behind them and they have their new board we can expect some more input from their side. The new board are going to have their hands full but we can now hope to get some definite guidance.

We have heard back from PPIS and they think it best that we do not push the Icelandic connection but rather concentrate on the international aspect. That will make marketing more difficult but we have to respect their decision. I will ask for national parties to indicate whether they would be prepared to use Sunstone - PPNZ has already indicated it would :)

1. Are PPIS in favor of location in Iceland with primarily Icelandic staff?

2. It is premature to ask national parties anything until after thorough discussion and clarifications of the implications of this decision for nature of thinktank and fundraising project. Cannot write more till later this week. But am shouting STOP.

@evathuridardottir Thanks for your explanation in the logo thread. I have some specific questions about what you said. I am asking here to keep the logo thread more narrowly focused on logo.

First I will copy what you said there to here:

vvvvvv

Eva Þuríðardóttir

It’s not that the PPI board doesn’t want any emphasis on Iceland. Not at all.
The original idea was always to keep the think tank international - the idea was to creat a place where we could store an share info/knowledge to figure out what is working best for us and why a “how to build a successful Pirate movement” blueprint so to speak. We thought it would be a good idea to have an international platform for this and we could also use all the help and good ideas we can get. Now polling at 36 % the few volunteers that are working full time are overwhelmed. The odeas was a thunk tank that deals with the practical issues of building an political movement - not the political ones. It would be nice to figure out away to share resources and knowledge.

Do to Icelandice law: The PP - IS can not officially be involved with any fundraising campaigns. The only donations we are allowed to receive are limmeted both the amounts and where we can receive them from.
38 minutes ago · Like
^{^}

Questions:

1) Can you give a specific answer to my question above: "Are PPIS in favor of location in Iceland with primarily Icelandic staff".

2) Andrew said above "...they think it best that we do not push the Icelandic connection but rather concentrate on the international aspect..."

You say "...It’s not that the PPI board doesn’t want any emphasis on Iceland. Not at all...."

This may be clarified if you are able to answer that PPIS is in favor of location in Iceland with primarily Icelandic staff.

But at present I see a possible direct contradiction and certainly a need for clarification.

3) You say:

"[The idea was a think tank] that deals with the practical issues of building an political movement - not the political ones."

I disagree. Smari's concept, linked by Andrew at the top of this thread clearly says the exact opposite. I agree with Smari's concept. If there is any other proposal it needs to be spelled out clearly.

Also I do not believe a think tank dealing with the practical issues of a building a political movement as opposed to politcal analysis and research would be of any practical use to anybody anywhere and it sounds to me more directly in conflict with Icelandic law.

Earlier in this thread (currently showing as 29 days ago), Andrew specifically asked you for comment on alternative drafts of the mission statement:

https://www.loomio.org/d/qmiKnTAp/mission-statement?utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_comment#comment-758757

Just above that I had a quick off the cuff draft which I specifically intended to reduce any political problems arising in Iceland from accusations made by other parties, not just problems with Icelandic law.

I would be especially interested in your comment on that draft, which was short so I will copy it again here:

"“Emerging from the global pirate movement, advocates of transparency and participatory democracy have recently become the largest political party in Iceland and may lead or participate in the next government. Funds are needed for a think tank, based in Iceland, but mobilizing transparent global participation in research and discussion, for global pirates to study policies for "practical government”. Many new topics, which pirates may disagree about, including practical economic, industrial, healthcare, welfare and agriculture policies for pirates in government.“

That wording is also intended to emphasize learning from Iceland's experience rather than providing good ideas to help Icelandic pirates as I believe that reflects reality better. It will have a more "incidental" benefit to Iceland through payment of salaries for local staff.

I seriously don't get why you consistently are trying to stop any work from being done @arthurdent. I tnink it's splendid that Andrew is getting a bigger and bigger network of support onboard. Can't see how it could ever become something of this effort without that.

1) & 2) The PPI -IS - doesn't have an official opinion on Sunestone. To get one we/I would have to present this idea at a general meeting and the meeting would have to aprove of the idea - if this was an/or thought of as an "official" PP- IS project. Which it can not be - do to Icelandic law that concerns Political parties and their finances.

However if these laws were not in our way getting the steering committee's opinion/vote would not be enough. The steering committees main focus is on making practical decision for the PP - IS. The committee is not a political one.
This idea was pitch in short at a meeting with the mp's, other elected and the PP - IS SC this spring if I remember correctly, most were worried about how a think tank based in Iceland financed by donations coming from abroad would reflect on the PP - IS. However if this is presented as independent international project between Pirates, I don't think that would be an issue.

3) Yes that was the initial idea. That does however not mean that it can't evolve and expand to include Smári mission statement . Which I like.

To "glue" hold together a well functioning political movement expanding as fast as the PP- IS has done is no easy task, now I'm talking about the practical things like: the art of keeping volunteers motivated and making sure that the practical things when it comes to the individuals inside the moment - that need to be addressed are addreessed. Keeping a do ocracy movement syncroniced and working together as a whole is important. Too much expansion too fast is tricky and needs managing.

Neither me nor Smári have had time to specifically talk about this idea together. But since I am now no longer on the steering committee and I have just recently quit my day job. I should have more time to focus on this. I apologise for my lack of input. I will talk to Smári ASAP.

I hope this clearifies things a little.

@arthurdent

Thanks @evathuridardottir it does clarify some things and I am especially hopeful of further clarification following your "talk to Smari ASAP".

I will wait for results of that as well as pausing for some time anyway. But to assist in further clarification I will briefly summarize my understanding of the situation.

1. An "official" opinion from Iceland pirates should not be waited for in preparing proposals for an international pirate think tank at all. (This I already understood but it is worth stating clearly).

2. There is currently no "unofficial" opinion from people whose views might be relevant on what to me is a fundamental issue:

"If it is feasible would it be desirable for an international pirate think tank to be located in Iceland with primarily icelandic staff"

1. It is possible that some further light on that fundamental issue may be shed reasonably soon following discussions between eva and Smari (who I assume would also consult others whose opinions would be relevant).

I will merely add that I see no current reason to engage in any kind of fund raising for any kind of international pirate think tank that is not intended to be located in Iceland with primarily Icelandic staff. I am here because I understood (and still assume) that Andrew was initiating an (informal) group to further develop ideas for something along the lines of Smari's concept. I have taken it for granted that this concept implies location in Iceland with primarily Icelandic staff.

If anyone is proposing something else I need to see a document outlining what they have in mind at least as clearly as Smari did, before I could participate in discussion of further development of the idea, let alone fund raising for it.

Nothing I have seen so far suggests to me as an outsider that the kind of politics which makes the Iceland pirates of great interest to me would be assisted by an international pirate think tank that is not located in Iceland and staffed primarily by Icelanders.

Basing Sunstone in Iceland is not absolutely necessary. Having the initial staff members being Icelanders is regarded as high priority. That is a decision that was made at the outset of the project. There maybe legal of financial reasons that make it more logical to base it elsewhere.

What should concern us now is fund raising. When we hand over to the supervisory and administrative committees they will have the decision making powers to finalise these aspects. However, there will be a handover period and if we have enough funds we can employ the two staff members from Iceland and pay for Jelena's services.

The advice from Iceland is to how we handle the campaign and has no real outworking on the formation of the think tank itself.

I will be asking PPs to indicate if they would consider endorsing and using Sunstone in principle and so Iceland will be one of an international group of organisations and parties.

I talked to Smári and we're on the same page now. But he us also agreeing with me on this not being an "official" PP - IS project.

My proposal has closed. The outcome is that nobody else agreed and only 3 people voted to disagree. The remaining 18 "members" did not even abstain.

The proposal was self-explanatory and did not need further discussion. The only comment made during the period the proposal was open was from Eva stating that she is now on the same page as Smari, without any subsequent hint as to what that might mean.

As a result I think think there is nothing to inhibit Andrew from continuing to ask pirate parties to express their agreement in principle with some imaginary project in his head that has not even been stated in principle.

It will be fascinating to see the results so I will rematin with the 18 others now silently observing the deliberations of the Golgafrinchian think tank marketing team.

All we currently know about it is that it is called "Sunstone" and that it is not officially supported by the Iceland Pirates who have demonstrated much wisdom.

Hopefully we will soon learn whether any other pirate parties have any belief at all in principles of transparancy and participatory democracy or whether they will agree in principle with whatever it is and assist in detailed discussions as to how funds for a "Sunstone" thinktank should be raised, for example the color and shape of the logo and whether thinking should be powered by personal batteries and fitted nasally or as a suppository of all wisdom.

How about we ask Universities around the world to get involved, We could make a competition So Universities come up with the best practical political ideas.