T Tricia Public Seen by 37

I think it's time to decentralize. Unless we want to drink out of a firehose for the next two months.

The Wednesday calls can be just for report backs for working groups.

This will free up everyone and cut the tension. No central group means ppl don't have to ask, they can just do.

For the people who want the call to be the final authority - please look at the record and see the calls don't result in decisions- we run out of time for the most important agenda items every week.

If they were just for report backs, we could still coordinate and make things go smoothly, but we won't be bottle necking people's projects.


Carolyn Dixon
Sat 21 Jun 2014 9:42PM

Not enough information


Jackie Mon 9 Jun 2014 4:07PM

Items that need hard decisions can be proposed here on Loomio.
- because loomio works so well that hardly any Sac people weigh in here.
-because loomio works so well that decisions that generate real work, and the people to work them are about zilch - oh the banner decision, that one worked (may work)

Let's spend the next two months arguing over whether to decentralize like we did from Feb-April. This will really produce a lot of work and outcome. not.

Have Fun!


Julia Clark Mon 9 Jun 2014 9:45PM

I never understood the desperate need for phone calls.
Sounds fluid. Sounds functional.

Oh BTW, the material for the banners is secured and able to ship out upon request.

Anyone is welcome to a banner.
Just add poles and design.

I am sure that if football people can figure out how to support banners anyone else can too.


Julia Clark Tue 10 Jun 2014 3:43AM

I just noticed a large section of my homeless went silent. I am not sure when. About the size of a squad disengaged, then disappeared over the course of a year.
I have noticed chatter of people saying homeless are disappearing from what I would call fringe or more vigilant
I think the corps are using homeless as an portal to penetrate and gain intelligence.


Sally G Tue 10 Jun 2014 8:25PM

Not sure about this, not ready to abstain. I believe that the working groups should be doing more, and report backs should be of tentative decisions to be confirmed by the Wednesday call, as others on the call may have information that might affect those tentative decisions.


Tricia Tue 10 Jun 2014 10:11PM

The report backs don't even have to be from "working groups" - they can be from other groups and individuals, too. 2 or three minutes each with questions or clarifications at the end if there's time


Sally G Wed 11 Jun 2014 12:18AM

Yeah, working groups was partly shorthand for any group working on a particular piece of the pie, but it does help the structure of the call to have a standard set of groups checking in.


Cal Wed 11 Jun 2014 12:20AM

To clarity, there have been between 15 and 20 decisions made on the calls. In comparison, out of perhaps as many decision on Loomio, very few of them carry. And many of the people on the calls and in the working groups aren't participating in Loomio.


Tricia Wed 11 Jun 2014 8:41AM

Nope. Pull the decisions on the calls and list them here if that's true. The calls are not working for most and centralize decisions.
Loomio is transparent.
Let go of control and good things will happen, I promise.


Cal Wed 11 Jun 2014 12:54PM

The conversations on Loomio are spotty, less complete and non-definitive, and the view of those people discussing here seems more limited than those who are participating on calls and in the subgroups where more of what's happening is coming out. There are people who are showing up week after week to the main calls and the subgroup meetings, whereas there are people who have yet to show up here. One might expect to see when the group converges here (compared with the calls) but it's actually easier to see how and when the group converges on the calls. I don't see much converging here (with conflicting proposals) If anything, this seems more centralized (having the opposite effect that you seem to intend). Many of them are the product of one person's musings (someone who doesn't appear particularly connected to what's going on even in his ow town). The decisions were posted on a decisions pad -- dunno if it's been kept up to date. This tool has good potential but IMO we're not "there" yet, in terms of its effectiveness. There have been less than 10 people voting (often closer to 5) on most decisions here whereas there are usually 12 to 15 people on the calls and almost everyone on the calls participates in every decision and temp check. Also people can be nasty to others here (just like any internet forum/blog), whereas they don't tend to be that way on the calls.

I can see how, for some things, perhaps logistics matters, that this could be a good place to get that together, but I don't "feel" the group here on Loomio. It's a good experiment but needs a fair amount of work to make it work well and to foster real participatory democracy (which seems a done deal on our calls).

And there's no control here, on the calls, or in emails; it's an illusion. If anything, one person has a lot of control (at least of info_ in Sac. (This is what happened last year when one person kept much of the info in his head.)

What is missing is much collaboration between the various groups working on things, and Loomio isn't designed to help with that. (If anything, it seems to fragment the conversations ad infinitum. This might be improved with guidelines.)

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