Impacts of the Open Data Charter if implemented as the set of principles for open data in New Zealand

CF Cam Findlay Public Seen by 31

This thread summarises the conversations in other threads that raised key questions around the impact of adoption of the ODC. As a thought experiment, consider what is affected or might need to change assuming the Open Data Charter was adopted in NZ.

What are the practicalities of implementing the Charter? What will the open data landscape looks like? What support would be required for the Charter to be successful in NZ?

We will be running in-person workshops next week
1. Wellington workshop

  1. Auckland workshop https://www.eventbrite.co.nz/e/open-data-charter-workshop-auckland-tickets-27691941342

Some of the impacts you've already raised have been:

  • The current Declaration on Open and Transparent Government and the NZ Data and Information Management Principles are equally impacted should the Open Data Charter be adopted.
  • The current principles used in NZ cover more that just open data, so what needs to happen to continue to support open information and openly licensed physical material?
  • The degree to which individual agencies would have to make change to embed the set of principles in the Open Data Charter into their practice and culture. How might this be actioned in achievable way?

Let’s discuss and surface further impacts should the Open Data Charter be adopted.

You may also like to suggest useful implementation ideas and actions that could help mitigate these impacts (and let’s also not forget about the positive impacts too!).


Cam Findlay Sun 11 Sep 2016 10:01PM

@jaydaley just replying to your comment in the other thread as I think there is an impact here to think about (and we've refocused our discussion here around impacts).

To quote @jaydaley from another thread:

"Cam - From this page: https://www.ict.govt.nz/guidance-and-resources/open-government/new-zealand-data-and-information-management-principles/ I see no mention in the NZDIMP of specific NZ laws such as the Privacy Act. Am I looking at the right thing?"

NZDIMP mentions "... Official Information Act or other government policy" so while not explicit, you could interpret this to include privacy concerns under the Privacy Act

Further down the page it also makes references to "Complementary Documents" which includes the Privacy Act among others explicitly.

The impact I see here is if the ODC became a core set of principles for NZ, how might we express the interconnectedness with the existing legislation in the New Zealand context? I feel like there would need to be some work around a "New Zealand layer" of interpretation that would be part of implementing the ODC. What might that look like?

I think this is similar to the impact raised by @aaronmcglinchy in some of the other threads.

Interestingly, the Open Data Charter has some information around the adoption process http://opendatacharter.net/adopt-the-charter/

Would be great to hear your thoughts and explore this further.


Jay Daley Sun 11 Sep 2016 10:19PM

Thanks @camfindlay1. The applications of various laws to this space apply regardless of whether or not the principles/charter reference those so no specific reference is necessary.

The main purpose then in referencing other laws is to inform/remind those people in agencies and the public who are involved in this area that those laws apply. If it's felt sufficiently important then that can done inside the principles/charter as has been done with the OIA in NZDIMP or it can be done outside it as with the 'Complementary Documents' section to that web page. Personally I think there are too many to reference them inside the principles/charter and that reduces the benefit of a globally standard charter.

I would recommend exactly what the ODC recommends on the link you pointed to - that there is a statement of adoption of the ODC that contains the localisation necessary.


Jay Daley Sun 11 Sep 2016 10:03PM

As someone from outside Gov't who has not had a stake in developing NZDIMP I am struggling to see why this level of debate on adopting the ODC is needed.

The ODC should be seen for what it is - a more modern set of principles, agreed at a global level and primarily focused on how citizens will use the data. Contrast this with NZDIMP

  • While the NZDIMP are only a couple of years older than the ODC there has been a significant shift in areas such as data being "released free of charge" and being made "interoperable" that NZDIMP does not capture. Even without the ODC there would be a clear case for a major update to the NZDIMP but with the ODC one has to question if that is needed when a more modern path already exists.

  • While the NZDIMP were ahead of their time and includes some elements that are not in ODC, we are never going to have the perfect world where a global standard reflects all of our local contribution. The benefits of a global standard are clear - the best practice, tools, policies, etc developed in other countries can be imported and we can export our best practice, tools, policies, etc.

  • The NZDIMP is focused on agencies and what they should be doing and why, whereas the ODC is described as a set of expectations that citizens can have of the data. This is a crucial difference and one where the ODC takes a far better approach than the NZDIMP.

Sorry if this sounds dismissive of the excellent work undertaken but - I feel that this decision is a bit of a distraction from real progress and the ODC should just replace the NZDIMP and then we can move on.


Poll Created Sun 11 Sep 2016 10:34PM

I support the adoption of the Open Data Charter as a replacement for the NZ Data and Information Management Principles Closed Fri 16 Sep 2016 5:02AM

I am concerned that discussing this much further is a distraction from real progress and we just need to adopt the ODC and move forward.

While I regard the NZDIMP as world leading at the time they were produced and I am deeply appreciative of the efforts that were put into developing them, I believe the ODC is superior in three key aspects:

  • The ODC is more modern and deals with a number of key areas such as pricing (free of charge in ODC) and interoperability better than NZDIMP.

  • The ODC is a global standard and by adopting it we get all the synergies that come from working within a global standard with committed partners.

  • The ODC is framed from the perspective of the citizens who will use the data in contrast to the NZDIMP that are framed from the perspective of agencies that publish data. The ODC approach better reflects the general shift in government interactions with citizens.

Following this decision a discussion is needed to determine if the ODC is a simple drop-in replacement for the NZDIMP or if further work is needed. However, I see that as being a progressive conversation given the important step forward that ODC brings.

Agreement to this proposal means you support the adoption of the ODC in New Zealand, you’d like to see the ODC replace the NZDIMP directly and you note that there would be some work to be carried out to determine how this happens in practice (and we will begin to discuss this further in this thread).


Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 80.0% 4 JD DW AF DU
Abstain 20.0% 1 CF
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 0.0% 0  

5 of 25 people have participated (20%)


Deleted User
Mon 12 Sep 2016 12:05AM

From a behavioural psychology point of view, this proposal has too many leading points for a voter to have an objective view. See here. The anchoring bias needs to be mitigated with more neutral language


Cam Findlay
Mon 12 Sep 2016 3:40AM

Since I'm facilitating in this space I will hold off having a position myself and instead help others understand what they are agreeing (or not) to.


Jay Daley
Mon 12 Sep 2016 4:12AM

Agreeing with my own proposal as set out above.


Awhina Forbes
Tue 13 Sep 2016 4:29PM

Open data policy is an integral part of creating transparency in all areas of government locally and further paves the way for more cohesive unilaterally beneficial relationships between countries, aiding development of the global community.


Deleted User
Tue 13 Sep 2016 9:42PM

On the balance of things, I agree in principle that the ODC is something we should get into. Practically speaking, I'm sure there are more hurdles to jump through before any tangible impact is felt by open data/information users.


Deleted User
Tue 13 Sep 2016 9:42PM

On the balance of things, I agree in principle that the ODC is something we should get into. Practically speaking, I'm sure there are more hurdles to jump through before any tangible impact is felt by open data/information users.

Load More