Loomio

Social Coop is a company that claims to have acquired three Mastodon servers???

Richard Hull PublicSeen by 238

Greg Malkov
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Should be public IMO

Darren
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

I like that much of our processes are publicly visible.

Ana Ulin
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.seems like a good idea/tiene buena pinta">Seems Like A Good Idea/Tiene Buena Pinta</span>

At the very least we should be clear about what the default is. We've had more than one confusion in recent weeks when folks were surprised that a Loomio discussion was public.

Dynamic
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.seems like a good idea/tiene buena pinta">Seems Like A Good Idea/Tiene Buena Pinta</span>

I think this is a really good idea. I don't have huge privacy concerns myself, but I would worry that people don't feel comfortable speaking freely if the conversations can be made available to anyone.

Justin du Coeur
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Is there a reason to close it? I like the open, democratic process here (it's much of why I joined here) -- by and large, I think it sets a good example having the discussions mostly public, so other instances can see how it works.

Obviously, close threads that are in some way sensitive, but I think most are best in the open.

Andrew Shead
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Democratic process should be open to all by default, to participants and non-participants alike.

We should state somewhere obvious that Loomio is open and that there should be no expectation of privacy by users.

Alex Rodriguez
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Current settings seem fine to me. Having the public threads helped me in consideration of whether to join

Nathan Schneider
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

I think the proper balance is to have the main group public, for transparency, but working groups members-only (or public if they prefer).

This poll is inappropriately placed in an unrelated thread. Please see a new page in the wiki on best practices in proposal-making: https://wiki.social.coop/Make-a-proposal

Nick Sellen
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Just another voice along the lines of what most people are saying, I love open communications by default, and closed where there is a good reason.

LibreEquity
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.not sure what i think / aún no estoy seguro">Not Sure What I Think / Aún No Estoy Seguro</span>

Certain topics should definitely not be public - e.g. if someone realizes that there is a security vulnerability specific to the version of mastodon that we are currently running. That said, it is nice to be able to invite people in with transparency as long as it isn't too big of a risk.

Boris Mann
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

I think the Loomio interface is already an issue for participation. Making it private by default will make it that much harder for people to participate.

There may be certain sensitive topics that we want to make members only. I can’t think of any off hand as a blanket rule.

Let’s keep public-by-default, which should also be a general rule for our documentation and communication.

Daniel
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

For the reasons described by others, I would like to preserve the open nature of our governance; and making this clear to our users.

Chris Gollmar
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

I often want to know what kinds of conversations are happening (and the quality of said conversations) before joining a cooperative organization.

Luke Opperman
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Ditto to clarifying that they are public and leaving them public as the default.

Rich Jensen
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.not sure what i think / aún no estoy seguro">Not Sure What I Think / Aún No Estoy Seguro</span>

Reasonable arguments both ways. Willing to go with prevailing sentiment. Want to indicate with this vote that I have engaged the question and the space. Peace.

Joshua
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

I agree that our loomio threads in general should be public. However, I believe that sensitive threads (such as this one) relating to mediation/negotiation with outside parties or legal issues should be private. Perhaps threads within the legal working group should be private by default?

Caitlin Waddick, FWG/OC
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.not sure what i think / aún no estoy seguro">Not Sure What I Think / Aún No Estoy Seguro</span>

I am a person with a reserved personality. I would prefer everything be private. On the other hand, I often read the threads on Loomio before the app has logged me in, which I guess wouldn't be possible if we made discussions private. I like the idea of governance being public; and, as others have said, publicly viewable governance discussions attract people to Social.Coop

Luke
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.seems like a good idea/tiene buena pinta">Seems Like A Good Idea/Tiene Buena Pinta</span>

I think privacy is important when there is so much surveillance online. Those not signed in can join and watch without having to vote. But people should be able to contribute without it being public.

benjamin melançon
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

Pleasantly surprised to see for public by default carrying the day here!

tanoujin
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

To have transparent discussions furthers accountability. In fav to stay in the open unless there is reason to exclude the gen public.

Stephanie Jo Kent
<span class="translation_missing" title="translation missing: en.poll_proposal_options.i have concerns / preocupado">I Have Concerns / Preocupado</span>

what are the reasons for remaining public vs protecting a somewhat 'confidential' space. Is it fear-based (hackers, malicious agents)? Self-asserting in terms of building internal coherence, vulnerability & trust? I was invited by Mayel way back to learn more about coops and contribute what I can if it seems my skills might be relevant. Has it mattered to me that Loomio is public? No. I wasn't aware of it tbh. Does it change how I'm going to interact going forward? I don't think so...

Kévin

I'm not too sure why this poll has decided to be in Spanish (ignore the French it is my set language)

Brian Vaughan

I'm also seeing the response options in Spanish, though my language is set to English.

Are we talking about threads on Loomio specifically?

Assuming it's Loomio, if the default is public, do we then have the option to select private for a specific thread?

Matt Noyes

This is for Loomio threads. I don't see an option to control privacy for public threads, but you can add guests to a private thread... (I use Spanish for my interface, didn't realize it made all my polls Spanish, too! I like the French/Spanish combo above, though.)

Mitra Ardron

@Matt Noyes - I think you probably need to redo this poll, its clear many people (incluing myself) weren't clear which threads you meant (mastodon or Loomio), and will have already ignored the confusing notification. (I don't have a strong opinion on whether they are public or private)

Brian Vaughan

I'm new here, so I don't know the norms for discussing proposals. Another group I was part of that used Loomio had a discussion thread prior to a separate voting thread, which made it easier to discuss issues and ideally come to a consensus before formally voting, rather than trying to hash them out while voting, which Loomio seems to encourage by default. I see this poll is a temperature check, so I'm assuming not binding and so less formal, but the idea may still apply.

Andrew Shead

In the rare instances when there is need, we can discuss privately in a secure room on Matrix. However, as a general rule, the Internet is an insecure medium. One should be circumspect about what one says and does because though things may appear to be secure and private during one moment, that can and does change to expose previously thought private conversations and actions to public view. The Internet is not the place for clandestine activity. Cooperation and consensus requires open honesty among the members of a collective.

Richard Hull

This side-issue of public v private seems to have made us forget that we need to make a public statement distancing social dot coop from Social Coop Limited. There seemed to be an agreement on a brief statement on our wiki but it has not happened?? This is now urgent as some right-wing outlets have started to claim (based on those three servers run by Matrix/Dimension/Sujitech Suji Yan) that "most of mastodon is pedo" - see here https://social.coop/@lippard@infosec.exchange/109625608959101663

Richard Hull

Oh sorry Sam, yes of course, I even boosted that!! I forgot. But might it be an idea to repeat that on the Wiki?