Legal: Permits? Do we need stinking permits?

T Tricia Public Seen by 37

Let's research the laws about sleeping on the sidewalk as protest - Lets be aggressive in opposing limits to free speech by real people. The 1% is now able to spend as much money as they want- why can't we spend as much time as we want even overnight


Sally G Wed 23 Apr 2014 12:52PM

Mostly, I say “the first amendment is our permit”. Sometimes, though, logistics indicate that getting a permit/alerting police makes sense—for instance, in Buchanan, N.Y., home to Indian Point, where the issue is controversial and the police want to know that we are coming so that they can ensure that we are not bothered! In a high-traffic area, where we want to take to the streets, it makes sense to let folks know. But I am off topic here; you are talking specifically about sleepful protest, and I know little about that (other than that it is legal on sidewalks in Kalamazoo, but sleeping in parks is not).


Justin Wed 23 Apr 2014 1:31PM

Can I ask the context of this question?

Is our host city/ occupation planning on hosting sleepful protests or is this just a general question?

Are we intending to raise awareness about local houselessness or worried about where folks can safely sleep outdoors?

Anyone who has used the tactic can tell you in the end the laws make no difference but in the end it's about the relationship of local police with houseless community.


Tricia Wed 23 Apr 2014 6:43PM

It's a human rights question ~ our rights to peaceful assembly, free speech and freedom to get our grievances addressed are being infringed by rules on "camping" and attacks by police on lawful assemblies.

I hear Sacramento is tough and has an "urban camping ban" I believe that is intended to quell free speech and aimed specifically at the Occupy Movement. With so many cases being won by Occupy protesters and so many charges dismissed and so many cities having to pay fines, we could challenge them to learn the lessons of the past and have 24/7 protests.

Those who are unsheltered are our brothers and sisters, but this isn't a performance protest, this ability to assemble over the course of days and nights out of doors us essential to this event.
It was prompted by the Cowboy and Indian Alliance's encampment in Washington DC that is going to go on until April 27th.


Tricia Wed 23 Apr 2014 6:51PM

Here's the OWS People's Puppets video ~ it's important to protect rights to peacefully assemble and let's call for public oversight of the iris scan program.while we're at it. I say we come off very confident and be proactive in our stance.


Bobby Thu 24 Apr 2014 12:02AM

Permits??? Permits??? We dont need no stinkin permits!!!


Justin Thu 24 Apr 2014 5:33AM

I need to point out a #sleepfulprotest is a VERY specific tactic to raise awareness about the rights of those living on the streets that is used in front of typically Occupy targets (banks, churches & buildings).

Doing sleepful protests just to do them at a NatGat risks getting people from out of state arrested when they traditionally are socializing and resting for the next day.

In general a #sleepfulprotest is used either when there are houseless activists & traveling occupiers wo safe sleep spaces or specifically to get arrested to challenge local laws.

This sounds like a 'good idea' being suggested as 'visioning' like many recently...

It strikes me as VERY top down idea and wastes an important outreach op: we should be turning OUTWARD to wider Occupy to start co creating the actual event...

It seems to me we have a duty to coordinate Occupy's NatGat participation not organize it via committee created projects.

Most people's energies are going to be devoted to getting to NatGat- is it fair to keep sending them our ideas to execute once they are here?

I know most of us are gonna want safe spaces to rest.

This is NatGat. It's about our community of protest deepening our relationships & furthering projects..

Do we really need to make a statement about the houseless in the area? From what I know from working in this area Cali isn't the place you try & pull sleepful protests unless you are prepared to go to jail or do it somewhere safe & NON political.

It's a tactic of survival & Civil disobedience. Not for the faint of heart or for those not prepared to be arrested.

I should know. I helped co-create the tactic with Jo Robin & others during #SleepOnWallSt & @TrinitySleeps were it was first used.

The 2nd layer with the 1st amendment side- was added during #OccupyUnionSq. It's just razzle dazzle legal speech to distract the cops while sleepers pack up and get to safety. It's basically 'These are not the droids you are looking for' scare tactics we use with NYPD. They arrest you if they want to & the case law does not hold up.

You have to go through several steps to make it legit & it only works with cops who don't want to arrest you.

A #SleepfulProtest is a very very specific thing.. I hope we've already found a basic sleeping location already...


Otherwise we might wanna focus on that first before adding a night protest option to NatGat.


Justin Thu 24 Apr 2014 5:35AM

#POI A #SleepfulProtest is successful only if there are NO arrests and people get a full night of sleep. ;)


Tricia Thu 24 Apr 2014 11:02AM

You should write a rule book u got so many.
We used sleepful protests - which you founded, I guess, in both NatGats. Slept in front of banks. No arrests.

We are obtaining many housing options from hotel listings to Quaker Church to the scouted main location.

I will do research on Sacramento laws and talk to Cres. V


Tricia Thu 24 Apr 2014 11:46AM

ACLU has been a good ally. Perhaps contacting them pre-trouble instead of post-trouble help in courtrooms. We can contact them way beforehand so they can assist us in knowing the legal parameters of our rights and pre/em lively strike at the Sac PD by letting them know we know we are on solid legal ground to protest our little hearts out for three nights and four days Here's an article on how they did it for Occupy Sacramento regarding restricting City Hall protests http://sacramentopress.com/2012/07/24/after-threat-of-legal-action-by-aclu-sacramento-postpones-discussion-on-restricting-protests-at-city-hall/


Sally G Thu 24 Apr 2014 12:51PM

“traveling occupiers wo safe sleep spaces ”
In case we have more folks show up than we have prearranged sleep spaces for, we should know about the sleepful protest options. I do not believe that anyone is trying to impose anything, just checking all options.
I think the “rule book” comment might have been insincere (oh, uninflected e-mail!), but I really do think a GUIDE book of wisdom on sleepful protests would be helpful to the movement.

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