Multi Proposal at the same time.

Our group we will need as soon as possible not only simple purposal, but multi purposal at the same time or instead of yes, no, abstain and block, to choose our purposals there.

Definitely agree that we need a way of considering multiple options at once. I would like to take a step back from the existing proposal feature before deciding what is the best solution though.

The existing proposal mechanism is pretty good for focussing a group's attention very tightly, for building consensus, and making binding decisions.

Comparing multiple options, gathering suggestions, and canvassing opinions feels to me like quite a distinct task from a proposal.

Agree @richarddbartlett - just about a precursor to a proposal in its current form.

And i would envisage it as another option, not a necessity to get o a proposal

I think it is necessary step though as my initial feel is the proposal system is good at focus and decision making but not is also narrow (different sides of same coin).

Please accept my feedback as a desire to improve a good concept into what i would use it for rather than a criticism.

Thank you.

I like the idea of multiple choices being a tool to use to create focus toward deeper discussion rather than replacing the decision itself. That seems constructive for sure! The Loomio team is working on the roadmap for next features now so we will look forward to sharing that and getting your input on priorities between this and the myriad other features people want as well over the next couple of weeks or so.

I think something like a yammer poll that is visually distinct from a decision would meet this need nicely - it still shows up on the right hand side but it's presented as learning and gaining insight from the group rather than making a binding decision.

Hello, I'm new to this group, but using Loomio since few months now :) I'm totally in favour in multi-purposal, but i'm not sure a "vote" is the best thing to bring to loomio.

Does anybody else find themselves thinking around in circles on this stuff? Nonetheless, I can see a few possible solutions here.

• The simplest is for people to simply post their counter-proposals as comments, and see how many people 'like' them (as a modification of that approach, the full range of positions we can currently take on a proposal could be offered for each comment).

• One would be to simply allow editing of proposals while they are live, obliging people to actively follow discussion on which they take a position, or risk having said "yes" to one thing which then becomes something totally different. The proposal could be auto-extended (eg by 3 days) every time it is edited, to give people time to check if their position still holds.

• The need for multiple proposals tends to come out of longs discussion threads. What about adding a draft proposal feature, where a proposal can be entered normally, but edited on the fly by any user, with a version history. Positions are reset every time the text is edited. A draft could be locked (by who?), making it into a Current Decision (used as normal). This could be used either to craft a proposal before going for formal consensus, or in tandem with a Current Decision, as a way of trying out amendments.

• This would be a lot of work, but combining editable proposals with integrated realtime chat (using a standard like XMPP or IRC), could allow us to have 'decision sprints', where we hash it out in a chat room, edit the proposal, check people's positions, "have we got consensus? No?" iterate until golden brown. A realtime chat feature would also provide an alternative to situations I've been in when two users end up logged in at the same time, flooding Loomio discussions with ping-pong comments.

Reading through the discussion threads, and using them to expand my thinking;

1) I would still prefer an ability to have an ability to post a multiple choice question that can be voted on and could be recorded as a decision like the current proposal history but

2) perhaps it is called Pathway or precursor and shown separately from proposals so the option can simply be used as a poll (full stop) or as a stepping stone tool to help focus and form a path to a good proposal point

3) the discussion tree is an option but a separate precursor function allows visibility and recording of that step

Cheers

During yesterday's big workshop some of the Loomio team spent a while working on a feature to do approximately what the proposal is suggesting. I'm working on turning paper mockups into something gloriously digital. Will share when I'm done.

Meg Rose should also have said excellent proposal - I like the thinking underway.

Here's my mockup of that feature: https://www.loomio.org/discussions/6413 I aim to do some work making it easier to understand what's going on with the screenshots, but they might still be interesting in their current state.

@matthewbartlett - hi there - am i thick or does that link below point to a thread about editing comments not multiple answer proposals?

Cheers

@barrybaker I'm sure you're not thick, but the screenshots are just using 'editing comments' as an example discussion. I've added a bunch of captions there now which I hope will make things clearer.

Our group at Commongorund Co-op was just saying this is a feature we need.

@benjaminknightloo, @richarddbartlett, @vivienmaidabornloo

It looks like the decision was that "multi proposals" were a good idea - 4 years ago. Did this ever get implemented? What is the current status / where can I find out more?
Thanks
Oli

there's some changes coming very soon to the proposal functionality. Including multiple proposals open at the same time and different stiles of proposals! :)

Coooool thanks @natilombardo
When you say "soon" is it possible to give any dates?
And can you tell me where is the best place to subscribe to be made aware of these changes when they arrive?
Best
Oli

I think it's fine to give users tools & let them decide how to use them. However, I also think that it's generally unwise for groups to attach more than one proposal at a time to the same topic-- mainly because of the sequential stream of comments per topic.

So, I'm kind of wondering whether the Loomio team is planning to retain "one proposal at a time" as a default, or maybe even a recommendation? Or, has the Loomio team thinking on this subject changed considerably in recent times? (Historically, I believe that many people were aligned with the "one proposal at a time" concept.)

We're going with the principal that It's up to the facilitator to decide how to use the tool. If though experience we find that there should be some limits, we'll look at how to implement them.

It's in beta testing and we can turn it on for specific groups.. send me your group id (rob@loomio.org) and we can enable it for you.

Thanks for the explanation Rob. Well, many tools including Loomio provide users' manuals. If Loomio receives a deeply new feature such as multiple proposals per topic, I think it'd be super helpful to offer related guide material(s), perhaps at https://help.loomio.org/en/proposals.html .

And of course, per my prior comment, I'd personally recommend a typical guideline of one live proposal per Loomio topic.

If anyone effectively uses a decision-making workflow with multiple proposals per topic, I'd love to hear about it. It could be highly relevant to some of my papers such as Agreement-Based Organization.

There's a tension between two goals in the question of whether to use multiple proposals per topic. On one hand, keeping to one works well with the ethos of consensus and orients towards refining a given idea to be the best version of that idea it can be.
On the other, using multiple allows for the exploration of different approaches. Sometimes the first idea someone comes up with is workable enough that if the alternative is "DON'T do that" (ie, implicitly, do nothing), then it is clearly worth doing--and yet, at the same time it is far from an optimum solution and if other ideas could be considered alongside it something better might be found. The dark side of an orientation towards consensus can be an orientation towards groupthink . . .

Exploring different approaches is vitally important. I personally recommend that ideas are explored thoroughly prior to formal proposals or instead of formal proposals. I'm glad that Loomio is currently expanding users' options for co-creative approaches via new polling types.

Whether or not a formal proposal is intended to create democracy or groupthink is IMO a deep cultural issue for each network or community.