Kia ora, talofa, hello, and welcome to the Census 2018 discussion on Gender Identity. Statistics New Zealand wants to know what people think, so here’s your chance to have your say. I am really looking forward to hearing from you on this topic.

I am also facilitating the discussions on sex and sexual orientation.

Similar to my post in the Sexual orientation discussion, the gender diverse world gets excluded and ignored enough just because somebody doesnt know how to talk about it. Removing gender entirely is such a waste of an opportunity to use those numbers in bettering the services the gender diverse community use and therefor betting the lives of these New Zealanders. Don't exclude people and their journeys just because you don't know how to talk about it.

I appreciate Statistics New Zealand's concerns on inclusion of gender identity questions in the census, as to potential confusion among the cisgender population due to the lack of education around gender identity.

I do hope that Statistics New Zealand is however exploring alternative options for collecting nationwide statistics from gender minorities. Statistics are important for presenting to government departments and NGOs to recognise areas in which the community is discriminated against, beyond the current reliance on individual experiences. Statistics New Zealand is still in the best place to collect these statistics, due to the lack of large organised bodies representing the interests of gender minorities in New Zealand.

Thanks for starting the discussion @kabelmanga1, and welcome. Just to clarify, the census is still proposing to collect sex and gender identity has never been included. Kabel has used the term 'gender diverse' . Other people who are reading this - are there other preferred terms?

I agree with Megan, possible confusion simply isn't good enough a reason to exclude this question.

The statistics that this would provide would give many of us really strong backing in our advocacy work for trans communities.

I do a lot of work in advocacy for trans youth. We got some hard stats in the Youth12 study last year on trans and gender diverse youth, significantly around health and wellbeing - and they're not positive. But having those stats has definitely made a difference, we've been able to say definitively that this is happening, that we have higher rates of mental illness, abuse, suicide, etc, and that something needs to be done. But those stats alone aren't enough, and census data would make a real difference.

The other problem with collecting data on sex is that the term is ambiguous - you're going to get a lot of confusion from trans and gender diverse people about what you mean by that, because as a trans woman given only an option for 'sex' on a form, I'm going to write down "female". I know what you mean by sex, and I understand what you want me to say, but my identity as a trans woman is more important to me and more significant to your data than the sex I was assigned at birth. The solution to this confusion and this potential loss of important data isn't clarifying what sex means, it's including gender identity in census questions.

Perhaps you can answer this @LisaAtStats but I am wondering why there seems to have been little produced from the submissions Statistics New Zealand took on developing a statistical standard for gender identity. Many of the things that are being said here I and others submitted back in July-August 2014 i.e. a good 9 months ago.

@Alana (topic expert) can you let @meganbowradean1 and the rest of us know where the Gender Identity statistics standard and classification is at? I know you've been doing a lot of work on it lately.

And welcome to @jenniferkatherines. Just adding a link to the Youth12 project you mentioned.

We also have an introductions page if anyone would like to introduce yourself, tell us if you represent just yourself, or an organisation or group of people, why you've joined the forum etc... (it's great to have you here).

I agree with Jennifers comments re asking and using the term 'sex'. I think 'gender Identity' is the more important term to use.
This comment in the intro also worries me...
"People may confuse or not understand the difference between ‘sex’ and ‘gender’ which are conceptually different, and not interchangeable."
I think the only people who will be confused by those terms are those who are non gender variant in some way. To me the majority to transgender folk, if not all, understand the differance between ones 'sex' and ones 'gender' and 'gender identity.'
I also agree with Jennifer in that while the TG community may be a small percentage of the population, it is a hugely unknown and under recognised community. Albeit that other agencies such as MoH, DoC and NZTA may collect some data, it is limited to only those who use those departments and doesnt cover (supposedly) all NZers. So there data would not be as applicable as that of Statics NZ.
In trying to work with agencies, their funding, interest is very much based around being able to show them numbers.
Collecting these numbers, imho, is of the utmost importance to the Transgender community and those with the potential to offer them help.
Thanks.

We definitely need to be capturing this information - it's critical to identifying potential issues or opportunities. If we accept that gender and sexual orientation is not binary, its more complex than it used to be - but this isn't a valid reason for excluding it. The same issue would've happened a few generations ago around relationships - you were married or single. Now we accept relationships are more complex and yet we seem to able to cope with them.

After reading this thread I agree with majority of the commentary and my question would be what data would Statistics NZ and/or the community wanting to be gathered in relation to gender identity? If the answer to that question is to quantify the amount of people within the queer community or the people who do not conform to the gender binary then that's a self identification question - do you identify within/as "x" (the term best suited can be used). However, if the information wanted is something else I hesitate to encourage questions that may be offensive or invasive to be included within the census.