Finding a balance: Social and economic outcomes of alcohol

I think that seeking to achieve balance between economic good and social harm is an unfruitful quest.

When this dynamic exists, it allows the corporate forces a platform to lobby against those who pick up the pieces, and the mighty (private) dollar is pipped to win, allowing it to externalise the negative costs, which are huge (mental health, physical health, loss of productivity, ACC...)

We want GOOD bars and restaurants in our city, thriving. But we don't want lots of messed up people as a result. Bars that continue to sell to intoxicated people are bars that don't belong in our Cool little Capital. We need to send that message really clearly. There is currently not enough of a disincentive.

We need to change the culture - with a combination of carrot and stick.

I think that some of the direct costs of the fallout should be shared with those who profit from the sale of Alcohol - a levy or taxation would be a good start. It should be used to fund programmes that help clean up our night time act.

Like - have awesome free street parties that people have to do a positive breath test to enter. (threshold of 3 drinks).

Give incentives to bars (like remove the levy/taxes) if they breathtest people on entry.

To judge whether someone is intoxicated is too grey an area for bars. It needs to be really simple and enforceable.

Additionally, we could get police (or give walkwise people the authority) do breath testing (but with a different threshold than driving) and have intoxicated people removed from premises, and then get the police to come in and charge the bars for serving intoxicated people.

It would be a huge job to enforce initially, but it would eventually settle down.

There needs to be a cultural change. Children should drink watered down red wine with their families at dinner time. alcohol needs to be de-mystified and linked to normal life. This is what French, Italians, Spanish do.
Also the alcohol retail system needs more regulation. Minimum prices. No advertising or sports sponsorship. That would be a good start.

I agree with Megan. The root of the problem is overly intoxicated people. Living in the central city I see intoxicated people every night and am on the receiving end of their ugly side mostly through my property being vandalised.

I am against all price and hourly based restrictions (even existing ones). They financially penalise the vast majority of sensible users and create artificial limits that cause people to drink heavily before whatever arbitrary time forces the venue to stop serving. They also make a mockery of living in a free society. People should be allowed to drink what, when and where they like; and venues should be able to trade whenever they like 24/7/365. The problems all start and end when people become intoxicated.

I would like to see actual enforcement of no entry/no service/ejection policies for people who are already intoxicated (or buying drinks for people who are already intoxicated). Treat overly intoxicated people like minors essentially. This must not be left to venues to self police, it will only be effective if venue profit is threatened. One way to easily and cheaply enforce it would be to convert some traffic wardens to booze wardens and send them off to randomly patrol town. No long winded process or hoops to jump through it could be part of the licensing conditions just as opening hours are now. If there are people so drunk they're barely able to speak/stand in your venue when our wardens call, that's it, alcohol license suspended for the rest of that night - the rest of your venue can continue business as normal (food, soft drinks, etc).

I personally really don't like how outdoor seating areas are constantly creeping out onto the footpath and mall areas. Smoking is ubiquitous at these tables. Especially in Cuba Mall. I find this behaviour offensive and I avoid walking past them. Cafes OK, even with beer/wine mixed with coffee drinkers and food. Hard core booze no. It's anti-family in my opinion. It advertises drinking-to-get-drunk culture with smoking on top. Ugly and wrong.
When the anti-smoking law came in I was horrified to see smokers pushed onto the footpath, inflicting this pollution on the rest of us. Butts everywhere, then the butt collectors turn up. I feel sorry for them but the whole set-up is an unintended consequence that is a big negative. WCC should not make money renting public space this way. Anytime drinking is separated from family and food it turns toxic very quickly.

I agree it's a culture thing... and geography thing. Welly is compact, easy to get in and out of, so there are less constraints to all gathering to get plastered. There are great social gathering spots - Wellingtonians love to get out and get together. Often the young Welly population is transient, with no roots here, so they form tribes around the drinking culture to foster their sense of belonging. We need to give them alternative things to do than get wasted.