Require a TLDR summary if comment is too long
Alanna Irving PublicSeen by 99TL;DR: If you type a long comment, Loomio should ask you to write a short summary, which is then posted at the top with the rest of the comment under a "show more" link. This will leave space for those who want to engage in long-form discussion, while also keeping the conversation accessible to those who don't want to, don't have time, or can't.
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I'm a big fan of long-form communication (books! woo!) and I also think there's an important role for very in-depth discussion in writing on the internet. There are a lot of ideas you just cannot communicate properly in a tweet or soundbite.
However, when a conversation on Loomio involves a lot of very long comments and walls of text, it can be excluding to new people coming into the discussion, people with limited time, people who have trouble reading, etc. Our main goal is about facilitating participation from all voices, so this is a concern.
Long comments can also hijack the discussion, being dominated by a small number of people interested in that communication style or some specific aspect of a wider discussion. This can leave everyone else out, and make it hard to bring the conversation back to a point or move toward decision/action.
I was thinking about how to create space for the best of both worlds, and I started thinking about TL;DR. I often put them at the top of long-form emails or Loomios so that if someone only has time to read one sentence, at least they get that important summary.
Here's my feature idea: if you type a comment over a certain length, a box pops up asking you to write a short summary of your point. That is posted at the top, and then there's a link to "show more" to see the rest of your comment. Kind of like a statement of position (which Loomio asks for on votes) but for comments.
This would mean that someone could scan just these "headlines" and still participate, while also leaving space for those who want to engage in long-form discussion.
OK so if you type a long comment and there's no TLDR, should it just take the first 4 lines and then hide the rest under "show more"? I think that would encourage people to be concise :)
Yeah totally. Character count would probably be more practical than lines, but all for encouraging brevity.
You could easily do both: "Because your comment is too long, you will need to provide a tldr. We put the beginning of your comment as such for now, feel free to make it better."
I really like the idea of the author being asked to write an 'executive summary' of a long post because readers 'read' different messages from the same piece of text.
How many characters/words should be allowed before a post is considered 'long'?
I would say something like 200 characters.
I am not saying that there shouldn't be comments longer than this. I'm saying that if people can summarise the main point in something around that length, followed by further detail, then the discussion as a whole is accessible to more people.
- First time user here
- I agree because attention spans are getting much shorter
- People read bullet points
Some people like to "talk/type" their ideas out - they become fully formed only at the end. Having a synopsis field asking the user to summarize can go a long way to enhance the quality of the discussion.
Another aspect is hiding the characters over and above 200 char. I think that is good. Otherwise one has to scroll umpteen times to see the latest.
I would guess that over time people learn that if they aren't concise, their points in a discussion get overlooked and have less influence.
That said, I would be interested in knowing if a suggested limit (like 200 characters) with a link to "show more" gets clicked open very often. Those metrics would be useful in deciding how many characters to show and if to hide any characters at all.
@BenBurton most people learn, but unfortunately it only takes one or two people not getting the point to really put others off participating in a discussion due to walls of text.
A TL:DR of sorts would be very useful - although I don't think users should be made to provide one in addition to their comment. This may penalise users that don't intend to write a wall of text. The "show more" would be more accommodating of users that write short-and-sweet comments as well as those that want to write a bit more.
Another thought: in the case of the "show more" option, if the user intentionally uses the (200) characters to write a TL:DR but doesn't want to fill all of the (200) characters then could they use a line break to force the "show more" rather than having half of the first sentence of their lengthy discussion included in the TL:DR?
I think 300 characters (about 3 sentences) is about right, although perhaps setting this length could be an option for coordinators? Once your comment hits that length, another text entry box could appear below (or beside?) the comment entry box. Above the new box could be a picture of the Loomio HelperBot, and a piece of text saying something like: "Golly-gee-whizz! Your comment is getting quite long. Would you like to enter a brief summary of your comment, less than X characters" (where X is the software-defined or coordinator-defined length threshold).
I really love the idea of letting group coordinators set the maximum length for a "non-truncated" comment.
This would be good in case of long discussions, late coming people can read summaries and be more-or-less ready to participate, rather than being turn off by its length :)
Besides comment character length, TL;DR's should be oneliners, no? (I'm thinking something like an email subject)
I don't personally think that TL;DR should be generally limited to one line of text. For complex 'arguments' (coherent rational constructs) I can see TL;DR often running to 3-4 lines, and perhaps pushing some groups' preferred boundaries for the truncation of comments.
That echoes my one comment in this related truncation thread . As I also noted there, I definitely don't think that complex arguments (or monologues) are normally desirable. It depends on how a lot of things, including how frequently and reliably people are interacting with each other.
I would definitely agree that it's good to aim for one line TL;DR when the key concepts will comfortably fit.
Suggest tldr sure but require nope.
Definitely don't require it. The last thing I want to see after typing a diatribe is 'We couldn't submit your comment because you didn't do this fiddly thing.' Could be good if it's clear and optional.