Loomio
Mon 9 Mar 2015 1:20PM

Kick off

MS Matthew Slater Public Seen by 125

Hi Patrice,
I guess its up to me to start.
Government involvement in a currency changes everything, but while the Greek government is likely to be more amenable than most European governments to support monetary-economic innovations, I don't believe that citizens should wait for government.
I believe, in contrast to some, that ultimately money is a shared arrangement and needs no law.
I understand you are looking to create medium large-scale complementary currency for Greece. But I don't know who you are, how many you are, what resources and what credibility you have at your disposal.
I'm looking for ways to share my expertise and experience. My knowledge is both broad and deep since I've visited and spent time with many CC projects across the world, and am working on software implementation with various groups and networks. My co-authorship in the Money and Society MOOC shows my grounding in theory.
http://iflas.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/money-and-society-mooc.html
Today my time is short, so I shall look forward to hearing from you.
Matthew

PAF

Petros At FreeLab Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:06PM

I am sorry for leaving the thread unopened -- I am heavily loaded with projects here. Just running from place to place -- and still waiting for the Internet to be connected in our flat.
I am an independent volunteer here in Thessaloniki, not affiliated with any group. At the same time, as I write quite a bit (https://freelab2014.wordpress.com and https://www.facebook.com/petros.freelab), there are people who pay attention to what I have to say. I am also a long-time supporter of the solidarity-based, self-organized economy in Greece, which I more or less monitor for years.
My strong feeling is that here and now there is a good moment to launch a social currency, which would provide some way of integration on a countrywide scale. @panayotisantoniadi will be able to tell more about specific local trade and exchange systems, which emerged in Greece, based either on time banks, but also on tangible exchanges (like TEM in Volos).
We have even more examples listed by http://omikronproject.gr/grassroots

My idea is NOT to develop a unitary currency. I believe what we need is a transfer/bridging currency, letting people to keep using whatever they use now (TEMs, hours, BTCs or even euros) but to be able to get into exchange with some other LETS' members.

Of course, we may use euro for that, but there is also another aspect.
The new Greek government is now pretty much in fight with international financial and political institutions. I have a strong gut feeling that #grexit is a viable option -- either forced by Eurogroup players or implemented by the Greek state itself. But it is either a hidden agenda for the government, or plan B. At the same time, 17% of Greek society either supports or accepts a possibility of Drahma restauration. It creates quite an interesting situation, highly favorable for the project I try to put together.
Economically it would give stronger base for solidarity economy here, helping local communities and organizations work together and go through any earthquake #grexit may cause.
Politically, it would consolidate the support for restoring Drahma, and -- in case of the scenario being implemented -- help the government to get it done.

PA

Panayotis Antoniadis Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:11PM

Hi Matthew, I wanted since long time to contact you and I am happy that it happened naturally :-)

And hi Petros! (I summarize below my intervention in the e-mail list)

Personally I am a newcomer in this area, and I am very attracted to the idea of a "legal" complementary currency as the one being developed by Sardex. For this, I am in involved in a small networking trying to understand and compare various alternatives and design options: http://compare-network.net.

Based on my current understanding, cryptocurrencies are a complex solution for only part of the problem and create a dangerous illusion that technology alone is enough.

I believe that we need to advance carefully and in steps, and focus on the most important aspect of a complementary currency, which is trust (in my opinion).

For this I have recently organized a summer school in Volos,where one of the founders of Sardex (Giuseppe Littera) together with Brett Scott
(http://suitpossum.blogspot.co.uk/), Chris Cook (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/isrs/about/fellows/ChrisCook)
and others worked with people from the local initiative, TEM, to propose a new model.

Their idea was very simple, but when they presented it to local authorities it was evident that there is a big gap to be bridged both in terms of understanding and motivation.

But I still (strongly) believe that starting with a "legal" approach like Sardex can be a good entry point. And I would be very happy to hear some critic on this perspective because I keep in mind that I might be a little naive :-)

PAF

Petros At FreeLab Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:15PM

OK, so we have at least one detailed aspect to be discussed. Let me set up a thread, then.

MS

Matthew Slater Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:19PM

I believe the Grexit cannot be talked about in advance. I think in rhetoric and reality is the last option, and would be very disruptive for Greece and for Europe. I think Varoufakis wants to change the whole Euro, not just Greec's situation. If Grexit happens it will happen suddenly, according to secret contingency plans. The government would announce the new currency and start paying people in it, pricing contracts in it. I don't know what would happen to Euro Bank accounts balances. If this happened, the eDrahma idea would probably be finished.
On the subject of transfer/bridging currency. This is increasingly my main focus. I'm working on a EUR1.2M EU proposal to Horizon2020 CAPS fund to develop a protocol and implement it in the main community currency softwares. I have identified Ripple as the most appropriate ledger for that. I have the relationships with all the main actors to make it work, but not the money to hire the professionals. And certainly not a business plan to take value back.
What I would like is to be invited to speak at the CommonsFest in Athens, and find out about yours and other initiatives in Greece. If you can tell the organisers that I'm doing something real that might help.
Matthew

MS

Matthew Slater Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:32PM

I just wanted to add that the organisation I cofounded, Communitiy Forge is hosting, and I made the software for 2 local exchange systems in Greece, which weren't on your list
http://diktyoantallagonxanion.net
http://melekounia.gr
Panayotis I like your approach and hope we can work together

PAF

Petros At FreeLab Mon 9 Mar 2015 2:47PM

Matthew, You are invited to add them to the list.
I do not have a compulsion to discuss government plans regarding grexit. But the fact is that here in Greece it is pretty serious subject for people to discuss. Some of them are not afraid of it. After so many years of humiliation they do not want to stay within the system which they believe is rigged against them. The longer the are under the pressure of EU institutions et consortes, the more personal they take it.

I believe coupling the idea of transfer currency for social economy with the symbolic restoration of Drachma may be the way to crowdfund (and crowdsource) the whole project. It is not going to be a business project, however, so none of us would get filthy rich :-) . It is going to be a socio-politial project -- and that is why I got involved in it.