Loomio
Wed 9 Apr 2014 10:43PM

May Day People's Assembly & Movement Report Backs

OA Occupy Anonymous Public Seen by 36

On past days of action Assemblies have been a source of tension for groups of #Occupy to coordinate horizontally in a fair manner. In the rush to hold the event the gathering, agenda & facilitation team often favors NYC stakeholders.

To avoid multiple assemblies in multiple locations these groups have decided to turn the assembly over to the global movement in honor of the workers we celebrate on May Day.

All groups who can establish a connection to the Occupy movement through past participation and if their work is in line with the #NYCGA Statement of Solidarity are welcome to present.

OA

Poll Created Wed 9 Apr 2014 10:48PM

We propose to build a facitation team before the assembly from who is at Liberty Plaza by 6:30 PM on May First. Closed Mon 28 Apr 2014 4:08AM

Outcome
by Justin Wed 26 Apr 2017 9:09AM

The reaction looks good to create the team the day of at Liberty Plaza May 1st 630 PM.

To keep the effort horizontal creating a facilitation team the day of an assembly has had advantages on past days of action.

This allows for anyone interested to participate avoiding historical hierarchies and past organizational relationship.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 73.3% 11 J D TL CC DS HS L A TB Y A
Abstain 26.7% 4 J OA SG E
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 10 J J SG KAF I MEV AB RS MM SS

15 of 25 people have voted (60%)

OA

Occupy Anonymous
Abstain
Wed 9 Apr 2014 10:49PM

As the discussion admin & person proposing it just wouldn't be cool to wave fingers in any manner.

D

Dallas
Agree
Thu 10 Apr 2014 2:46AM

Having a facilitation team selected in advance may keep some from attending at all if they don't feel comfortable with the persons selected. Picking a team on the spot is more organic in terms of facilitation being in tune with the group as a whole.

DS

Dan Shockley
Agree
Fri 18 Apr 2014 4:23AM

This makes a lot of sense. The folks who actually show up should get to consense on who facilitates. Furthermore, as someone else said, not having preordained facilitators means that people might feel more inclined to attend in the first place.

A

aiman
Agree
Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:06AM

fair is good.

J

Jackie
Abstain
Sun 20 Apr 2014 4:45PM

Not in NYC;
Otherwise +1 and would like to follow the mechanics, best practices for forming facilitation teams at NatGat GAs.

E

EricZen
Abstain
Sat 26 Apr 2014 10:39PM

I'm hearing a pretty strong argument that so much action is taking place on May Day that 7:30pm NYC time is a more fair, inclusive and therefore appropriate time.

A

Anon
Agree
Sat 26 Apr 2014 11:05PM

Direct democracy & transparency is always what's best for the whole. <3

SG

Sally G
Abstain
Sun 27 Apr 2014 5:12AM

not sure I will be there that evening; just all work together, PLEASE!

D

Dallas Thu 10 Apr 2014 2:56AM

This might call for a separate discussion and/or proposal, but with all this talk about being globally inclusive, has anyone been thinking about ways to integrate Loomio + livestream to (finally) include folks outsaide the "studio audience" as it were?

L

Linda Fri 18 Apr 2014 4:26AM

I totally agree with Dan. "Preordained facilitators" sums up what often happens. See who is there and wants to work it. Might be surprised at who steps up when given the chance.

SS

Sumumba Sobukwe Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:46AM

who is Occupy Annonymous? And we 'Occu-Evolve' called the assembly over a month and a half ago..based on actual work we are doing with groups like the Laundry Workers, People's Power Assemblies, AND May First Coalition at 6:30 most of those at Union Square will be doing a march to federal plaza to address workers and immigration issues...

OA

Occupy Anonymous Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:48AM

Thank you for comment.

You might start a discussion topic around that.

Great to have you join the Occupy community in the next wave of coordination & cooperation!

SS

Sumumba Sobukwe Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:49AM

A facilitation team should include groups and individuals doing work to not only build May Day but those involved in day to day struggles for workers...wth gives here?

J

Justin Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:50AM

It's awesome you put the call out Sumumba! The community has responded & have been working on this together. Awesome to have you here. We rise together comrades!

OA

Occupy Anonymous Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:52AM

This IS the community Sumumba. Glad you've joined us here.

SS

Sumumba Sobukwe Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:52AM

https://www.facebook.com/events/735291599835311/

is the assembly already planned...and we've had OPEN meetings about this for well over a month now...and we'll have another the next two fridays and one more wed at 147 w.24th street 2nd floor 6:30pm...

OA

Occupy Anonymous Fri 18 Apr 2014 5:55AM

The assembly is planned yes. This is the discussion of what we the community are going to do there. It's always been a Report Back Format. That is what you had us agree to at OccuEvolve.

A

aiman Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:05AM

i like fair. to pick that day is very fair. the workers can come and volunteer like anyone else.

SS

Sumumba Sobukwe Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:08AM

us? who is us? that's one thing the other is how about showing solidarity for the rest of the day and the build up to the assembly at night? we're not going to build it in this forum with just us and u can't have a 'facilitation team' meet at 6:30pm when most of us will still be marching at that time...how about folks come to the organizing meetings going on in the next two weeks and we organize from there ijs...not trying to argue but some of us have been having these open meetings and busting our butts to make may day 2014 happen for months now..i've seen very few of these people chiming in here at the meetings or actions..it would be respectful to the rest of us if solidarity beyond this forum is shown out in the streets or at least at meetings..ijs...

A

aiman Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:09AM

we come to meetings. we are also doing this. we should be good to one another.

OA

Occupy Anonymous Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:12AM

Sumumba we are here now.

How can we help you join the horizontal community led effort in the spirit of Occupy & the 99%?

Your voice is important, but only one of many. Join the chorus that is #OWS.

J

Justin Fri 18 Apr 2014 6:19AM

Maybe you can share this discussion with other stake holders Sumumba?

We're on the same side, let's not forget that- no matter when we came to the table.

SS

Sumumba Sobukwe Fri 18 Apr 2014 11:44AM

here's the thing folks...since at least august of 2012..there have been several campaigns and actions that OWS and Occupiers around the city have taken up in the name of Labor, from the FIGHT for Golden Farm and Hot and Crusty to Walmart and Wendy's and others around the city...we and others have sent out the word and asked for solidarity and support but virtually none in whatever is still OWS or Occupy has responded beyond Occu-Evolve AND 99 Pickets(who no longer calls themselves a part of OWS movement) last year we did about 7-8 actions on May Day including the Assembly at Zuccotti again little to no help from other groups..that's fine..but its bewildering to me to get asked a question of who is Rynetta Bennett or Moraima Ortiz (the people we named the may day assembly after) and planned out nearly 2 months ago. (and if u don't recognize their names that's one of my points)..this whole thread smacks of disrespect at best and opportunism at worst..i will leave it at that..but instead of deciding on some semi-secret thread online...how about folks come to actual may day planning meetings which are OPEN and inclusive ...and even better upcoming ACTIONS to buildmay day...like the assembly tonight at 60 wall 7pm or the 99% Wave of Action-Stop Wave Theft Now!
Meeting Point: 182 street and grand concourse avenue
2427 morris av in the bronx 1:00pm on saturday...ijs..

SG

Sally G Fri 18 Apr 2014 4:24PM

Only concern is the amount of time that getting a facilitation group together can take; is 6:30 early enough? How does an agenda get prepared, does that take time as well? Maybe if the agenda is prepared ahead of time, virtually—maybe even here on Loomio—then the team could jump right in after being assembled, which would keep time shorter.

J

Justin Sat 19 Apr 2014 4:07AM

Sumumba, you might take some time to step back and look at what the Loomio tool set is about.

The proposal is to build the team before or day of.

Having a team formed the day of does not preclude others from participating.

I am not hearing any issue with the question on the table but it appears to me that you are expressing frustration about information flow between NYC #OWS, Occevolve, National Occupy, The 'May Day' Steering Committee, Occupy Anon, Wave Of Action, the #ED2MD Convergence Community & the other groups wishing to join in.

D

Dallas Sat 19 Apr 2014 8:26PM

Let's not lie and sugarcoat: Yes, this discussion IS about whether the amount of effort on has put into organizing, or one's seniority in the movement should allow one to automatically assume a facilitation role for the assembly on MayDay.

Some people agree with this practice, some don't. Let's have a frank discussion and hash it out. That's what consensus meetings and direct democracy are about, right?

OA

Occupy Anonymous Mon 21 Apr 2014 10:00PM

Does #NatGat have a documented process it is using this yet? In the past there has not been a set tradition or style of facilitation- it has changed each year.

There has been a mix of assembling team before, during or even outsourcing to other groups of stakeholders.

J

Jackie Mon 21 Apr 2014 11:42PM

No, no documented process. Last year was during, one the day of. From the perspective of event planning, and trying to have activities fit in a time slot, wondering about use of time is all.

J

Justin Tue 22 Apr 2014 12:12AM

What do you mean by 'use of time'?

The agenda will be set by groups & individuals wanting to give report backs only so it's just a matter of going through roles in the hour before the assembly.

J

Justin Tue 22 Apr 2014 1:46AM

Well it looks like Sumumba has gone loose cannon as he usually does two weeks out from an event.

Guess he'll be having his own little assembly at the other end of the the park:

http://www.nycga.net/events/the-moraima-ortizrynetta-bennett-occupy-may-day-organizing-assembly-for-economic-justice/

Sad.

He wont work with others on yet another community day.

T

Tricia Tue 22 Apr 2014 2:03AM

Maybe everyone should step back. Seems to me Sumumba had valid points about building on what's been done so far in the face to face meetings with stakeholders. Frankly, it's not a good use of Loomio to call people out and try to take them to school like that.
This is new to all of us.

J

Justin Tue 22 Apr 2014 2:17AM

Frankly this is the only place a public discussion can happen. Loomio offers Occupy a chance to speak together & not be railroaded by the 1st come 1st wins mentality.

I don't call out, I call IN. Huge dif.

I want us to work together. Sumumba has done this with every day of action since May 1st 2012.

Loomio should allow all the people he claims to speak for to stand up with him.

Not seeing it, yet.

MEV

Malú English Version Tue 22 Apr 2014 8:53AM

Here is the thing Tricia, I do know Rynetta Bennett or Moraima Ortiz because I and our friends from the OWS Zapatista Solidarity have been supporting all the fights Sumumba and his group claim to be the only owners of.I have been in Golden Farm, Hot and Crusty, Wendys, Moraima Ortiz, only NOT when Sumumba orders so and wants to.He does not know this but I and a group of OWS Zapatista friends just went to deliver a letter to the owner of the shop where Moraima used to work. We were yelled at by the owner, and he insulted and slandered Moraima.

Among Sumumba's divisive tactics counter-organizing for a cult are:
(1) Claiming to have a moral superiority over all of us - you just saw that example
(2) Taking cosmetic measures to make his group look like the representative of all the workers and community leaders (impersonating instead of representing) eg Giving away awards that no one else in OWS voted for, naming assemblies that no one else voted for, etc.
(3) Slandering people on their backs and insulting them when no one else is watching.

He is now doing it again: by naming his assemblies with the names of these workers without consensus, it's like we are not allowed to support these workers unless we accept being treated by Sumumba the way the boss of Moraima Ortiz treated her (insulting and slandering).

As a result of which, he discourages any other creative participation towards these workers or anything action he is involved with.

I don't know what to do about it. I am just informing that this issue is more complicated than it seems.

T

Tricia Tue 22 Apr 2014 10:51AM

I would think there's enough organizing in NYC for errybody. I wonder why you chose to work together here on Loomio .
Nonetheless - here are Four attitudes with people: friendliness or lovingness, compassion or support, happiness or goodwill, and neutrality or acceptance

SG

Sally G Tue 22 Apr 2014 10:55AM

Tricia, why would someone NOT want to work together? I do not understand your point.

SG

Sally G Tue 22 Apr 2014 10:57AM

In fact, I just realized that you abstained because of not being in NYC, which makes sense, so further do not understand your comment; others might ask why you are commenting here, on a NYC organizing page. (Not trying to be argumentative, but to understand.)

T

Tricia Tue 22 Apr 2014 12:34PM

I thought this page was for the global May Day Wave. I didn't realize it was NYC centric. I spoke up because I admire Sumumba's work

L

Linda Tue 22 Apr 2014 1:15PM

I am late joining this discussion but I will say this. There MUST be a way to work together. Wasn't that the original purpose of the notorious hopelessly flawed Spokes meetings? I support Sumumba's work with labor and low wage workers 100% BUT Occupy Wall Street is more than just that. I believe we need to stick to the core issues which most people (not just Occu-folks) agree on: MOney out of Politics, end to bank and Wall Street fraud and Greed, Econojmic Equality (and its not just about low wage earners--its the entire vanishinhg middle class). No one should lay "claim" to any time slot. There simply MUST be a Unified schedule of events. Many conherences have large "workshops" with smaller workshop options also available. This is the irony of having too many people doing too many things. I have only 3 words we must all not just say but also SHOW: SOLIDARITY SOLIDARITY SOLIDARITY.

J

Justin Tue 22 Apr 2014 3:39PM

Ah you must not spend much time organizing with Sumumba in person then. Yeah there seems to be a pattern about two weeks out from events & he has a falling with community stakeholders then creates his own versions of events. He does this with EVERY day of action. Loomio offers him a great tool to give voice to all the people he works with- He seems confused that he can no longer speak for anyone but himself with the new tool set. Transparency & accountability is rough when you have to engage it in the radical way occupy seems to demand.. He'll come around.

J

Justin Sat 26 Apr 2014 2:56AM

Sally Occupy is global, this Assembly is happening in NYC but members of groups from all over will be there in person & online.

This discussion is for all stakeholders in Occupy.. Some choose not to vote bc they will not be but their input is important.

OA

Occupy Anonymous Sat 26 Apr 2014 3:03AM

We choose to use Loomio to bring transparency to our efforts & allow people a voice in community decisions.

As Malu suggests- too much happens without any community buy in & coordination.

Loomio allows both discussion & a way to see exactly where consensus is. No more speaking for others or using faked meeting minutes to give false appearances.

MEV

Malú English Version Sat 26 Apr 2014 3:28PM

Should I explain these immigrant workers that our democratically consented assembly is at 7:30 that they are cordially invited and the other assembly decided by Sumumba is at 7:45 pm in Zuccotti for which they were invited and named? That way at least, if they can make it at 7:30, they can have 15 minutes to talk with us. Do you agree, or do you think I should do nothing?

J

Justin Sat 26 Apr 2014 11:11PM

The assembly has always been scheduled for 730. The proposal is about the facilitation team running the meeting before hand.. not the start time of the assembly

E

EricZen Sat 26 Apr 2014 11:48PM

So facilitation team was planning to not march? I can occupy space on 6:30 facteam for groups I've been meeting with in solidarity until speakers arrive from the march... is that what was intended in the original plan?

Where can I go to find the agenda in progress or finalized listing 6:30 facilitation team, 7:30 assembly?

Not poking at bees I just don't know how I miss the honeypot when I'm very smart and connected. C u all Thursday.