ah shit. i'd want to go to pride, too @lindsey, any idea if there's a radical contingent again this year? I missed last year's, but 2012 was a good one.

As for the meeting, i would think that 5pm on Monday will be the same problem for Lindsay, as she can't get in before, when, 5:30?

(can people only vote Yes if they can come, and suggest another date if they can't)

Um.. sorry me again. So only 4 people voted. the motion was that at least 2/3rds be in attendance. Maybe it makes sense to go ahead anyway, but i do feel pretty concerned that only 4 people participated at all in the doodle (and i'm to blame, too). @ashleighfield @mumitm @kellyrogers @karamoses @emilyfarmer @daniellindley @bobwhitehead are you folks in?

Unfortunately anything in May is impossible!! For me apologies

Makes sense to move it to the Monday, but unfortunately I will be away.

Monday of that weekend is a bank holiday so I won't be working - can anyone else make that?

@dorter I've not been to pride before, I've not really been involved with the queer community here but I'm starting to feel I should be

OK with me.

@dorter I think the final decision as to the date and venue of this meeting should rest with you. We could move it back all the way to June if you wanted. I m just not sure if moving it back would ultimately improve attendance.

i definitely don't want the decision to rest with me. We all voted on the motion at the meeting. But if it is a bank holiday then i suggest that we move it to the afternoon if possible.

I personally don't feel comfortable being on an Editorial Board without having a meeting like this but if i'm the only one...

Afternoon is fine by me.

I'm really looking forward to it :D

@dorter the only reason I said the final decision should rest with you is because you have repeatedly threatened to walk out if this meeting does not occur and in the manner you want. As you also did in that last comment.

I think the meeting is a good idea and should happen but I am especially keen as well that you don't walk out.

I will start another decision for 2pm on Monday. The one that gets the most yes votes 2pm or 6pm will be the one we will go for.

I'd favour 6pm - or 5 for that matter - as it gives me a chance to get to the allotment first.

if i come across at all as threatening to walk out i'm deeply sorry because that's not in any way my intention. I don't like blackmail or manipulation and that's really not what i want to do.

At the same time, i think it's important to acknowledge when a group isn't working well, or when there are irreconcilable differences within it, and i don't think it means anyone is to blame, or that the culture of the group has to change.

But if i'm articulating things that are important to other people, too, then that's great. And i'm happy to help make changes that might support more of us being involved.

But if not, if this meeting really is only important to me, if structures and processes are really only important to me, then I should leave, shouldn't I? It doesn't mean i wouldn't still support Slaney Street (i need to pay my dues in cash, btw, which is the thign i keep forgetting to talk to you about) but that i would stop getting in the way of what everyone else wants to do. And that's not a threat but a recognition that my needs are going to hinder the ability of the rest of the group to work together.

To be honest, i've done pretty much fuck all for Slaney St. since after the first meeting so it never occurred to me that saying - "hey - if this isn't working, i should bail" would seem like anything other than a relief.

But i am genuinely sorry the ways i've tried to communicate that shit seems threatening. That must feel really frustrating and shitty.

@dorter I don't think we have irreconcilable differences - I don't think our politics are that different. My only concern is you a have said you will walk out on several separate issues. Perhaps you didn't mean it but it is hard communicate online. However you have explicitly said you will leave on this this meeting, The name of the secretarial working group, The date of the Editoral meeting, The date of the first paper, The women's issue. Many of these issues you had a lot of support over - not a single one were you a minority of one. So on that basis I really don't think you should leave as irreconcilable minority.

I don't want you to walk out because firstly I do think you are articulating important things, legitimate perspectives & thoughtful ideas. Secondly I want this to be diverse project in which irreconcilable differences work together. A project in which those with strong ideas convince members with less worked out ideas of their positions in a dialectical manner.

Which is why I consider a statement of "I can't be on a board that does xxxx" as essentially the exercise of blocking vote by the member of the collective. I guess I just think you are using block positions slightly to often something which is to be avoided in a consensus.

I don't think we are working perfectly but by the low standards of formative groups I don't think we have very serious problems and have been able to form consensus & compromise on nearly every issue so far.

I am very keen that this meeting is done at a optimal time. I'm sorry if saying that I think you should get the final say in what is likley to be a considerably sub-quorate vote on here. I was just extremely keen to make sure you were happy with the result as you have indicated a very high level of interest in this.

@edwardbauer i understand what you are saying, and don't want to belabour the point here but i don't think that's a fair characterization of me, honestly, though evidently the fact that you felt that way speaks to my poor communication style as much as anything else. And it is difficult to communicate on-line, or after the fact, especially when so many people are absent from many discussions. Hopefully the upcoming meeting will help clarify things.

But, given that it says here that i'm i've threatened to leave over several issues, i just need to say that for some of what you mentioned, i had thought they were private conversations with you in trying to understand dynamics that i wasn't able to be part of first-hand. I've already spoken about my problems with the decisions around the women's issue so i wont' rehash that. .

To be clear, rather than blocking other editorial meetings, I suggested the first one go ahead without me since the time and place that i couldn't do suited other people and instead spent a few hours trying to put in as much input from afar as possible, despite that eating into my writing of my final paper for my degree. And went to the second meeting despite having to cancel plans and again disrupt plans.

Other, little things, i'll be aware of my wording about in the future because, without wanting to trawl through past conversations, i certainly don't think i've "threatened to leave' over all of these issues, much as some of them i might not participate in (like a women's-only secretarial working group). I never had the sense that i had support in much, really. I just have no idea what anyone else is thinking about things here. But i'd rather move forward than rehash the past, and hope this meeting can help do that.

Finally, i don't disagree that a certain amount of difference can be really important, and i appreciate the political pluralism of Slaney Street But i think we need to understand where each other are coming from and what, ultimately, unites us. This is why i wish we were all able to meet together and start with some basic principles and ways of working together. Particularly ways of workign together.

Hopefully this upcoming meeting will be a starting point for it all.

Ta for arranging it

Given that Robert prefers 6pm, can we just agree without another poll to 6pm?

From 6pm to a four hour meeting plus breaks means the end time could be quite late. This is OK for me as I live around the corner from Briar Rose, but I just wanted to point it out in case anyone had qualms about getting home at night (I'm a very fearful person).

@dorter regarding the points in your main message, the essence of this (as I see it) is why having this visioning meeting is so important. Most of us barely know each other and it's so easy to make assumptions about how we think and feel on various issues, and what we should be doing as a group and as individuals to move Slaney Street forward. For the record, you're not a minority of one. During the last meeting you made many valuable but difficult points and called yourself an asshole for saying them, when really you're not, and I was glad you said them because I agreed but often didn't know how to articulate it. You're very insightful and aware of things that we should all be aware of, and I'm really glad you're on the board.

I've created a doodle for the time. I don't mind about getting home late, but i know it's hard to be productive sometimes at 9pm - the link is here http://doodle.com/pwr5p25zah5izexu

@lindsey thanks... FWIW, the processes you are helping to create go a long way to making this the sort of environment that would feel healthier for me

I have filled in the latest poll. However I doubt we will ever get everyone to do the poll and even if they do their diaries change or they forget things. In my experience things just need to get called otherwise they never happen due to being advertised incredibly late as this is now becoming. One of the things we must discus at this meeting is creating an working logistics or secretarial working group to make these decisions quickly and efficiently further in advance.

It will definitely help if during this meeting we can plan the schedule for meetings and deadlines for the remainder of our 6 months as editors, so that it's all known long in advance and people can plan around it.

The poll has not come out with a obvious time. I don't really feel comfortable or able to say lets just go for xx time.

However unless we want to do another vote on here I think someone has to just pick a time. If we don't do this the room could easily be booked up and it could be far to late to announce this.

Picking a time should ideally now be done the elected logistics/secretarial working group @dorter @emilyfarmer

@robert2 could we split the difference and say 5pm?

Of course. I hope I'm fit to turn out by then!

@Robert, if you cant make it by 5 then we will do it at 6. On the poll you said you coud "if need be". But if you cant, i CANstay till 10. I woudl just greatly prefer not to. So if you think you cant make it by 5 then lets just say 6

I can make it by five if I'm fit to get there at all. I'm getting a little better each day, so let's keep hoping!

Ok I'll book the room for 5pm now.