HOUSING - discussion of camp housing options

THIS IS AN INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT ON FACEBOOK I wonder if the business near Valencia Spain is a one man shop who is just a middle man importer ?https://www.facebook.com/yurta.biosolis?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

If the camp is intended to house students ( 10 - 15 ? ) perhaps they could stay in Tipis & class should be limited to warm weather dates ? That would reduce the amount of space heating required for campers who want to stay through the winter. It would also reduce the total cost of housing because Tipis are much less expensive than Yurts. 2 Tipis would do it ! for the men & 1 for the women ? Small Tipis for visitors ? I'm not sure an uninsulated tipi could be heated by a wood stove ...

Yes Tom, I was thinking something similar about having less expensive housing strucures (e.g. tipis) without heating for the warmer months, and having a reduced capacity in terms of numbers of campers during the colder months, so we'd need a smaller number of more expensive, heated and insulated structures (e.g. yurts). Regina also made a suggestion about camp high/low seasons according to weather.

https://youtu.be/-3EpfeEt_FM

Excellent work Marcus Busby

ERC draft concept video

Thanks Adam, General Assembly Meeting - Camp Organization Circle https://docs.google.com/document/d/1csWJ_nVhPvp2p4HCPMwDTqbGwEpZ6BZmtD5i40O7HjI/

Marcus list of components needed at camp https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B4HoSKR381TFq-iGZdpueHMHNEvzaXvj8wufVupvB20/edit

@Jeff If that is the case we should plan for 30 full time residents ? Twenty residents will be part time & seasonal 10 students & 10 visitors & 30 permanent residents equals 50 total residents at full camp occupancy. So if all part timers will stay in Tipis, figuring 5-6 residents per structure, we would need 3-4 tipis & 5-6 yurts plus a commons yurt. The size of the yurts would be determined by the type of bedding chosen single beds or bunks. The commons yurt should be larger, perhaps up to 10 meter diameter. I'm thinking you will need 1 or 2 yurts for the original group of Camp Builders. You should be able to assemble them in 1 -2 weeks if you have all the needed tools & materials on site when you arrive. Most of the yurt assembly videos show a one day yurt assembly with a 4-5 person crew. First you will need to assemble a pad to build the yurts on. Once you get on site you can determine how practicle it will be to build yurts & Tipis from scratch in a shop or purchase pre assembled component yurts & tipis.You will also need to think about bathroom facilities ...

yurt sleeping layout for 6 meter yurt

for sleeping I'm thinking cots with a heavy / dense foam pad & a sleeping bag. I'm not sure what is available locally. Long term residents may prefer something more comfortable.

Camp Space Requirements

Yurteco prices are very high I found the price list page
here. http://www.yourteco.com/modele/

Earth Bag construction is very in expensive, it you have a lot of volunteers, the work goes quickly. Here are a couple of examples.

How to build an earthbag home for $11.50 per square foot

http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/how-build-earthbag-home-1150-square-foot.html

Earthbag is a near-perfect answer for the site, however this was floated early on in discussions on the public FB page, as were various other types of semi-permanent shelter construction.

My understanding was that we were advised this would require planning permits. As yet, we only have permission for temporary structures on-site.

FYI Alfonso also offered to renovate farm buildings for ERC and for ERC to rent these.

FYI Earthshelter Knowledgebase page: https://knowledgebase.permaculture.org.uk/practical-solutions/earth-sheltered-construction

My understanding was that we were advised this would require planning permits. As yet, we only have permission for temporary structures on-site.

@johndennisliu ?

I was also thinking of earthbag construction as an option (for the second phase of building, not for the first phase to house the build team). But yes, we'd need to clarify the planning permission status of these. They're probably in a grey area between 'temporary' and 'permanent'. I think they're more likely to be considered 'permanent' by planning authorities, which would rule them out as options for the site.

This is Earthbag and Bamboo construction which is pretty smart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauxaYgvLdo

Copy of John's post from Yurt discussion thread:

"I'm wondering if we shouldn't start with Safari Tents that we purchase and then build the more elaborate dwellings. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/luxury-safari-tent-for-sale.html"

We can continue the discussion of other cheaper, simpler housing options here, prioritising immediate requirements for the camp-build team. If the budget allows, we can keep as an option buying one yurt as a model for building our own, and as a first common home space that's cosy and easy to heat.

Franko Gohse shared images of a very good looking safari tent, with double canvas and ample windows and interior spaces.. looking for link - will add when I find

Yes, it was these ones: http://www.tentickle-luxurytents.com/
I didn't look further into it because they're in South Africa, don't list prices and I assume they will be super-expensive. They do look very nice though. I'll look for something similar in Europe.

We should clarify the option of renting accomodation from Alfonso. I believe he said he would need at least a month to renovate the buildings. But what exactly is on offer? How many rooms, with capacity to accomodate how many people, already with power, water, toilet, shower and some kind of kitchen? Would we pay only rental or also some of the costs of refurbishment?

This option could serve well until the build team have established at least basic infrastructure at the camp site.

we should also explore renting the shop facilities ....

Simple canvas tents for temporary use for the build team:

High-spec model for 4 --
https://www.canvascamp.com/en/cotton-tents/sibley/pro/sibley-500-ultimate-pro-tech.html (4-bed capacity; designed for intenstive use; heavy-duty, waterproof, mould-resistant treated canvas; heavy-duty groundsheet; 899€ per tent)

Lower-spec model for up to 8 --
https://www.canvascamp.com/en/cotton-tents/group-tents/sahel-550.html
(8-bed capacity, less high-spec than sibley model above; heavy-duty, waterproof, mould-resistant treated canvas; no groundsheet; 899€ per tent)

So we could purchase temporary tent accommodation for a build team of up to 12 people, with three high-spec durable tents for approx. 2,700€
Or with two less high-spec tents for a team of up to 16, for 1,800€

I took a look at alibaba safari link & noticed many of the listings are from sources in China which could present shipping challenges & uncertainties. I'm sure one could be sourced in Spain , but would they be imports? Probably could find one in stock though ...prices ranged for larger sized tents from a couple hundred to over $1,000.

Canvascamp, the link I posted, have an outlet/agent in Girona, Spain.

global tent manufacturers online catalogue ... https://glampinghub.com/manufacturers/?location=EU

Shipped from China prices are much cheaper, but they are for sure much lower-spec and not designed for intensive use e.g. the bell tents listed at the link below are of 285gsm canvas, whereas the Canvascamp Sibley Pro is 360gsm canvas. That makes all the difference in terms of durability.
https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/canvas-bell-tent.html?ltype=wholesale&d=y&origin=y&isViewCP=y&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20170126103539&SearchText=canvas+bell+tent&blanktest=0

6 metre double-door 'pro' bell tents:
* Canvascamp Sibley 600 protech DD - 320 gsm canvas, with zipped-in extra mesh wall. 1,200€
https://www.canvascamp.com/en/cotton-tents/sibley/pro/sibley-600-pro-tech-dd.html
* Bell tent UK 6m ultimite pro twin door - very similar to above, but 440 gsm canvas, without mesh mall, 1000€
http://www.belltent.co.uk/bell_tent_uk/bell_tents/twin_door_6m_ultimate_pro_bell_tent

there will be a longer hot period that a cold period ...

Hi all,

just received a reply from another yurt provider. www.tipis.es Their warehouse is located in Girona (Catalunya).

They confirmed current stock for:
- 6 wall yurts (35 m2) for 3300€ +VAT
and
- 6 wall "panoramic" yurts (I requested more details) for 4400+VAT

8 walls yurts not available until June, only if a payment goes through by April.

I will update more details as oon as received. Pleae find attached the catalog they sent for further discussion (Spanish only though).

Update:

"Panoramic" yurt means bigger windows only, no change on size or height.

6 walls yurt is: 35 m2, central height: 2.45m, wall height = 1.55m, crown diameter = 1.6m, weight 550kg

Might be small in my opinion, but is what they currently stock.

Ex army tents, e.g.:
24 x 18 ft (7.3 x 5.5 metre) Frame Tent Ex British Army - A Grade, £1,345.00 (1,580€)
http://www.anchorsupplies.com/tents/24-x-18-frame-tent-ex-british-army-a-grade.html

Also stock:
British Army Sun Screen with Frame - 36ft x 20ft, £2,000;
Sun Screen cover only (without frame) - 36ft x 33ft, £95 !!!
16ft Arctic bell tent, £475

7 x 5 metre safari tent, can accomodate groups of over 10, supplied with wooden decking, 2,900€
http://www.safari-tent.com/index.html

Graphic of build-team housing options, with supplier info, prices etc:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B54eU4Mcpu5fckRTUjAweXJUTlU

Dear all
I am not sure where to contribute this. Considering the ongoing discussion in Discord, I prefer retreating to this more technical post in loomio -)!

Some personal consideration: after a few days in a big group, I need some privacy and expect from past experiences with big groups that I am not alone in this need.

I would be in favour of a few large space/yurts/tents for large events/meetings and those who enjoy sleeping in a large group, but I would suggest small sleeping quarters, even individual tents.

When we go camping in France we usually take cheap, easy to install, relatively environmental friendly small tents distributed by Decathlon
eg
https://www.decathlon.fr/2-seconds-freshblack-3-pers-id_8357353.html

They are perfect for summer and have protection against mosquitoes and the price is below 100 Euros.

If I come to Spain I will bring my tent, if this is possible,
or maybe we could foresee in the budget a few of those for people that need more privacy and mosquito nets ( they love me!!!)