Oh my goodness - I have to read that Richard! Could seriously influence the choice of policies!!!

The value of school grounds as a visual amenity and their use by communities out of (school) hours was part of the original thinking behind Learning through Landscapes. We found a few good examples of local authorities and school caretakers who pushed the boundaries, but it didn't catch fire. 20 years on, it could be argued that the potential benefits would be greater. However I'm not aware of any easily packaged manifesto asks in this area. I think Government and political parties would say "great idea; get on with it; you don't need our help".

As a new person to this group can I just check if we are talking England or the whole of the UK? Because the picture seems to me to be quite different north of the boarder than down in England - reflecting the different political environment,which obviously won't make things any easier.
I also wonder about the point about using school grounds more out of school hours. This government is certainly keen on sports facilities being used in this way so there must be ways of using the grounds in different ways too. Juno's points are very valid on this, but if it can be done for sport there must be a way of doing this for other activities, whilst I think David's thoughts sum up how this government would respond to much of what is being said - 'fine, but you do it yourselves!' So I think we do need to show schools directly that this is a beneficial approach. We know schools run gardening and environmental clubs that often take place after school but it seems there is much greater potential for using the grounds - and not just for the pupils who attend each school. Are there good examples in the UK (or wider) that we can look to? - as that is always the best way to show schools it can be done, because otherwise some schools will find all the reasons why it can't be and we need to have something to respond with.
Looking at Tom's original question here there are so many places we could go with this discussion, so I'll try and feed in as this develops...

Many thanks indeed Mary, lots of helpful stuff, yes at the moment the policy asks are for England but we will need to develop corresponding suggestions for Wales and Scotland and NI as and when it comes to costing them, so England primarily at the moment.

Many thanks indeed for your ongoing contribution!

We have some very interesting strands of conversation running on and we’re approaching a point where I would like to put some potential ‘asks’ out for consideration.

We have had suggestions from changes in Ofsted criteria to the opening of school grounds outside of school hours, initial teacher training to re-introducing the Buildings Bulletins.

Before I suggest three test areas, I would be keen to get your views on whether or not you feel we should/could focus on curriculum development as being one of the policy themes?

Many thanks indeed for all of your contributions to date!

agree with curriculum inclusion.

Hi Amanda, it would be great to get your UK views and the responses from the NPs - we can do this here or I can call you if you like?

I definitely think that we should talk about outdoor learning in the curriculum, and do so in a smart and focused way. The reality is that the new national curriculum has now been set and published, and schools are prepping for Sept teaching or indeed already teaching it.

We will need to be careful re: the framing of the ask, so that it is around policy/frameworks instead of practice/implementation; because an ask that is simply "there must be more outdoor learning within the delivery of the national curriculum" could easily trigger the response "great idea, but it's up to teachers."

Therefore, when looking at the national curriculum, we could focus on what the challenges and/or potential levers could be, leading to outdoor learning being a core component of the national curriculum. This could be assessment, teacher confidence (ITT and CPD), school leadership, costs and opportunities....

On an additional point, I agree with David that time is of the essence here.

Having had a quick read through the new primary curriculum I can see numerous opportunities for outdoor learning. I am a trained primary teacher but I now run my own outdoor learning and environmental education business. Reading the curriculum, it's inconceivable to me that most of it would be indoors. But that's because I am always happy to be outside! I don't think that it's the curriculum that necessarily needs to change, rather it's the expectations of schools, parents and pupils that needs to shift.

This may be done through Ofsted requirements but there is always the danger with this that it will then become a 'tick box' exercise. Plus, in my limited experience of Ofsted, they have always struggled to understand what I do, so this might not be the easiest way to go!

Somehow, the culture of schools needs to change. I think there is a fear that if children aren't in a classroom then outcomes can't be measured and therefore results will not be seen. The current school culture fails to allow for the fact that children learn best through movement and play (that's how we're made) and does not acknowledge that information and knowledge gained in this way is far more likely to be retained (and therefore actually show in tests).

Even where there are teachers who love outdoor learning, there can be internal obstacles. I've had experience of setting up the equivalent of a 'growing schools' programme within a school many years ago (before it was fashionable to do so) and it was a constant struggle as the other teachers saw no value in it.

As with most institutions, change in schools needs to come from the top down (at school level) so we need to determine whether the way to make head teachers shift the culture of their schools towards outdoor learning is though the national curriculum, Ofsted, media culture/pressure or something else entirely.

Hi , a little late to the discussion but Outdoor Learning is already on the curriculum up here in Scotland.
http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/Images/cfeOutdoorLearningfinal_tcm4-596061.pdf
This is taking a while to impact right across schools and all ages as the Curriculum for Excellence is now in place up to S4 (Y10) BUT we now also have the "Learning for Sustainability report of the One Planet Schools" which recommends (amongst other things) that all pupils should have regular access to outdoor learning, and regular contact with nature. These recommendations were accepted by the Scottish parliament last March and are now beginning to be actioned by a series of Education Scotland conversations - one of the first of which is on school grounds in May.
Also the new Scottish Play Strategy is looking at school grounds and their use by pupils in its action plan, both during and after school.
And finally the General Teaching Council for Scotland is also changing its approach. We now have accredited professional learning for which all teachers have to register on a rolling basis (over the next 5 years). ALL teachers must demonstrate Career Long Professional Learning (CLPL) which has taken over from CPD. The learning for sustainability agenda is part of that accreditation and therefore we expect a steady uptake in outdoor learning in a variety of ways, over the next few years.
Hope this helps and sorry for my tardiness!

Many thanks indeed everyone, really helpful contributions. We will now working on shaping a set of policy asks and open these as separate conversation headers on Loomio which will ultimately lead to a vote on the final set.

A little late to the party, here, I just wanted to add support for taking this conversation into the curriculum. But, for me, that’s about the curriculum in its widest sense of what schools teach and do. That includes, but is not limited to, the subject content of the National Curriculum.

I recently heard Joan Walley MP – chair of the environmental audit committee – suggest that there should be a ‘sustainability duty’ on all schools (including academies). That would effectively require them, through their school curricula, to help children learn to care for themselves, others and the natural environment.

That sounds quite an ambitious policy ask, and would require amending primary legislation (eg the 2002 Education Act, Section 78). But it also feels appropriate for the ambition and scale of the support that The Wild Network has – essentially opening the debate around ‘what role should schools play in connecting children with nature – and, therefore, what role should others in society be playing?’

I could see that such an amendment would have supplementary policy impacts as a consequence on many of the other policy areas considered here – school grounds & premises, teacher training, Ofsted, LOtC recommendations/requirements etc. It also seems to link to some of the other crucial aspects of children and nature such as health, wellbeing and resilience.

So, is this naively aspirational; or just the type of super-challenge we are going to have to take on to ensure that all children have any hope of reconnecting with nature?...

Many thanks for this input Phil , really helpful and echoes some detailed information from Suzanne.