Tue 30 Jan 2018 11:23PM

Counting smaller time amounts

LD Louise Delmege Public Seen by 310

How could we count the little amounts of time people spend doing things like sending emails, arranging meetings, and talking through ideas?


Louise Delmege Tue 30 Jan 2018 11:25PM

A fair amount of the volunteering I do is in tiny bits; replying to an email here, having a Facebook conversion there, thinking of an idea before I go to bed.

Could it be possible to count this time as well?


Louis Koseda Fri 2 Feb 2018 8:22PM

I think yes. All time is valuable and often people work at irregular hours towards something for the common good. But it results must be witnessed by another. In this scenario the thing should first exist, and this is proof helping us securely recollect how long it has taken to make the thing exist. So If a tree falls in the woods it does not make a sound until somebody else sees the fallen tree and concludes ' yes, that must have made a sound' and, it probably took around 5 seconds to fall. It is Non-existent until proof of the event is seen by another

In another way. Many journal articles might have taken a lifetime to develop but a second to write. However, we can only really reward the writing time we witness the fruits of.

This Idea, however, has its systemic shortfalls. It may not promote the speed of any operation. People are also incentivised to overestimate time, or be shy and underestimate personal time spent on something. This often happens on a task you feel you should probably have been quicker or better at. A psychological defense against criticism.

Without a clear consensus system for unseen work, It also leaves us liable for misinterpretation, and confusion. For example i spoke to Ibby late one night- I can request the research time I spent this night to be 1 or 5 hours. Both would probably be passable.

Another example is this post. I may have taken 10 minutes - or one hour to write it. And the reality is unclear.

Perhaps as an overall solution, there is some clocking in and clocking out timer system on our devices. So when we are contributing we simply click a time of start and end. Then we include a note - this automatically pings a request to the distributor of this branch to approve. For example, I could click to stop the timer now and it would reward me for my time. But this is also subject to corruption as I could leave the timer running for one minute more.

Perhaps in every example, there is a maximum salary situation of 8-9 hours a day. As it is likely we will only spend this much time with people who can witness work. Even if we do more, there is a cap. Avoiding unnecessary overworking and the problem of very slow working being rewarded too much.


Louise Delmege Sat 3 Feb 2018 9:36AM

This wouldn't work for those hours spent on invisible things, such as cleaning, having conversations, and emailing.

If these examples must be witnessed that would require all the people doing them to do them down at foodhall. Would this be feasible?


Louis Koseda Sat 3 Feb 2018 1:49PM

I was thinking about this last night. I came to a good solution pathway.

Imagine time measurement tools, for example, an hourglass. The reason it is good for timekeeping
is because a multitude of small pieces fall through a small hole individually.

This idea of a multitude of individual nano-confirmations seems to be the underlying logic behind timekeeping devices. This also relates to the idea of security in decentralization very well. Rather than just a system of individual quite large confirmations; perhaps we can develop a system of even smaller, fine-grained confirmations which happen automatically. In the situation of the hourglass, there is a physical law of gravity making it automatically perform as physics permit it.

Because space has physical, social and mental dimensions. It would be naive to try to measure every part during the prototype stage. The measurement of mental space is a metaphysical question which requires some real headway in cognitive phenomenology before it can be truly measured. The social dimensions are perhaps less difficult because of social media and platforms like as this, intersubjective data like rating and liking systems etc.

The physical information might be most useful to us. By measuring human occupation of space. I think the platform is to help the collective community work, so perhaps when people collectively occupy the same area, for the same cause, there a series of nano confirmations.

For example; if I have my smartphone on when I spend time in the Foodhall - I brush past 6-7 other volunteers. Like on dating app's- the proximity of interaction is noted. We are together for four hours. I apply for 4 hours to a distributor and so does everybody else who has participated, even if the distributor was not there-there is a lower threshold of confirmation because of this metadata of nano-confirmations. But if instead I get home and I apply for 6 hours. The others have applied for 4, the system now needs more proof, perhaps it automatically asks those who i have been with that my six hours it true.

In any case, this is way beyond a MVP. But it is good to think about.


Louise Delmege Sat 3 Feb 2018 2:08PM

I love the idea of a time measurement app.

I don't love the idea that the time of people who work slowly is any less valuable. There are many reasons someone might be slower at a task, including mental illness or developmental disorders. It would be unfair to set a time a task should take that not everyone can do.

I think the hour-for-hour value is the best thing about this system. Everyone's time is equally valuable, regardless of skills or speed.