@merrynbayliss

I asked for clarification on your beliefs. You refused.

You are obviously only here to insult and attack others. Those of us trying to be constructive share our opinions, and clarify them when others ask.

@merrynbayliss
Is there sarcasm in my comments?
I have no mathematical proof that my beliefs are correct.
I'd love to see anyone disprove them to me though
personally.
Interestingly Mythbusters came to a similar conclusion to me. In that the chemtrails are not being carried aloft, however they didn't prove that they don't exist.
I keep an open mind but am also skeptical about even my own thoughts, since 'reality is most likely stranger than fiction' it is likely no one can find out the truth.
So if there is sacasm, the sarcasm is at everyone who thinks they know the truth. From scientists to some staring at the sky questioning why contrails seem to hang there for ridiculous time periods.

Now don't get me started about the Christchurch Earth quakes. or the great cephlapodian conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

"Any sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from a genuine extremist."

I like my satire subtle. Though mine rarely is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEfJO0-cTis#t=34

@marcwhinery I never refused to clarify my beliefs. But the aggressive communication style you continue to adopt makes me feel reluctant to engage in discussion with you.

I genuinely hoped that my first response to your comment would alert you to the fact that I find your communication style hostile and aggressive, whether you intend to come across this way or not.

If you are not prepared to communicate in a more constructive way, it is my right to choose not to engage in discussion with you.

@marcwhinery I also enjoy satire, but it can very easily be misunderstood in a forum such as this, as your link suggests

Poe's law. Learn something new every day. Thanks for that.

Here's a conspiracy theory for you. I've long suspected that the Nats have trolls in the Internet Party's policy incubator. Now it seems that Colin Craig's Conservative Party is doing the same. 😲😱

But in all seriousness, I'm not willing to bag conspiracy theorists any more. Let's face it, the Internet Party is founded on the conspiracy theory that Kim Dotcom was spied on illegally by our Government.

I'm sure that those pre-Snowden conspiracy theorists who were considered "cranks" for believing that their Government was secretly spying on them are feeling vindicated now.

@colindavies "I can't agree with this as condensation trails are a subset of chemical trails, and only yesterday I saw a condensation trail."

Chem-trails are a subset of contrails, not the other way around. The first contrails were recorded decades before chem-trails were asserted to exist (the first contrails recorded in the 30s, proof in photos in the 1940s). And even the conspiracy theorists agree not all contrails are chem-trails.

The only way contrails are a subset of chem-trails is if you consider the dangers of DHMO and their effect on the world. http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Stop chem-trails and contrails, ban DHMO!

@marcwhinery
Well I'm quite sure that DiHydrousMonoXide is dangerous and is the principle active chemical in any chemtrails, or contrails.
This forum isn't really appropriate for any DHMO safety debate, as a global forum would really be needed.
.
I think a better prop would be that "Chemtrails will not be considered for policy by the IMP." the rational being that Colin Craig and the Conservatives have got this covered.

@colindavies If Colin Craig has the Con-trail covered, is that because he should be a con-vict?

Yes, I guess chem trails are one of his convictions.
After a bit of thought I wonder if we should be discussing this as we will be alienating a fair few voters especially the grey ones

@colindavies more important is the discussion of whether it's "grey" or "gray". These are the important issues we should be discussing.

And we all know they are green. like reptiles. And scaly, like reptiles, but they most definitely aren't reptiles.

@colindavies @marcwhinery The shading debate I believe has been unforgivably overlooked, especially in terms of grey as well. How many shades should we consider??? Colin Craig has suggested 50 as his preference I have heard. #anti-smacking bill

Is there an equivalent to Godwin's law regarding hash-tagging Loomio?

@andrewlepine
As the IMP is using Loomio to assist in making laws
I'm sure #Godwin's Law with the hash could be misinterpreted as another symbol.

I believe the first thing is to state clearly that geoengineering is a fact and part of geoengineering has been to add chemicals to the atmosphere for what ever reasons, deforestation (Vietnam),and making rain clouds has been one, which has been done in many countries including Australia for obvious reasons. A contrail is only created above 30,000 feet, and the vapour trail it creates will dissolve reasonably quickly, and does not hang around and make visual larger clouds. A contrail will never have breaks in its vapour trail or have odd shapes like a Chemtrail these are facts and one can do his or her own research to prove these details. Chemtrails can also be different colours. I believe that the sophisticated blocking radar these planes use, enables them to fly undetected from ground/sea radar What we should demand off any government is that they public pose the question to the USA government if they or private companies been allowed to unload chemicals which are not fuel over NZ airspace. Maybe we should have our own air force jets fitted with cameras randomly patrolling our airspace more often anyway. There are many videos that prove the existence of chemtrails. Here are two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6T41VYz93U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZG6LTgBi8

@richardpowell

A contrail will never have breaks in its vapour trail or have odd shapes like a Chemtrail

Are you sure about that?

There are many videos that prove the existence of chemtrails. Here are two.

Anyone can edit a video but where is the evidence,
For example look at the Big stink Russ George created as per video. And that was hardly a days work and there was a lot of evidence left from that episode. Carrying chemicals aloft would leave far more evidence than a few contrails.

Hi Colin, you have asked a question' Am I sure about my comment' Contrails will never have breaks in vapour trail yes I am sure is my answer. Planes do not stop and start which would be the only break you would create and see travelling at the speed jets do at 30,000 feet which this combination creates the contrail.
You next made comment anyone can edit a video, sure that could be true but what's the point? Are all videos being corrupted? are all photos being manipulated. lets stay with some logic and still believe in common sense and say some may but not all. I myself and many persons in NZ are confident they see chemtrails and know the difference. Lets just say there is enough evidence here and globally that its worth investigating. We could be checking the air and soil after seeing what we believe are chemtrails before and after? Or have our air force capture these planes on camera and or force them to land and check there planes contents. Just a few ideas for consideration.

When Jet engines decrease there power normally contrails appear to diminish. The airspped of the craft remains similar but the observable contrail appears to disappear. A good place to observe this is with the contrails at a approach for landing, You don't normally get them at low altitudes. But occasionally they exist.
.
But yes, everything is worth investigation.
My principle concern with the contemporary chemtrail debate is in respect to the mass that is being carried aloft.

Here's a little something to make you think

Where Does the Carbon Dioxide Really Come From?

 Ian Rutherford Plimer is an Australian geologist, professor emeritus of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne, professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide, and the director of multiple mineral exploration and mining companies. He has published 130 scientific papers, six books and edited the Encyclopedia of Geology.
 
Born
12 February 1946 (age 67)
Residence
Australia
Nationality
Australian
Fields
Earth Science, Geology, Mining Engineering
Institutions
University of New England,University of Newcastle,University of Melbourne,University of Adelaide
Alma mater
University of New South Wales,Macquarie University
Thesis
The pipe deposits of tungsten-molybdenum-bismuth in eastern Australia (1976)
Notable awards
Eureka Prize (1995, 2002),Centenary Medal (2003), Clarke Medal (2004)
 

PLIMER: "Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland . Since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you.
 
Of course, you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.
I know....it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kids "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cent light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs ..... well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.
 
The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes, FOUR DAYS - by that volcano in Iceland has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon.  And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time - EVERY DAY.
 
I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt..  Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.
 
Yes, folks, Mt.  Pinatubo was active for over one year - think about it!!!!
 
Of course, I shouldn't spoil this 'touchy-feely tree-hugging' moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keeps happening despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.
 
And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud, but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years.   And it happens every year.
 
Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you, on the basis of the bogus 'human-caused' climate-change scenario.
 
Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention 'Global Warming' anymore, but just 'Climate Change' - you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.
 
And, just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer.
It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.
 
But, hey, relax......give the world a hug and have a nice day!"

@ianmiller
There are lots of natural sources.

The logic in your article would mean it should be legal for me to poison my wife with arsenic or cyanide, as they are both "natural" so restrictions on them are illogical.

Instead, humans have added to the natural level of emissions.

Note the careful wording in the article. They don't mention the total emissions, but compare "reductions" (which are relatively small) with the natural emissions.

Why don't they compare total human emissions to the natural emissions?

Oh, because then their lies would be exposed.

That's assuming the article in question is real and accurate.

The text shows up on "hoax" sites and "debunked" blogs and such all over the place.

http://michael.mckinnon.id.au/2011/07/18/another-hoax-e-mail-volcanic-eruptions-and-ca/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/101-responses-Ian-Plimer-climate-questions.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/Plimer-Volcano.htm#.U8rrN_mSyTM

But then, I must be one of those carbon-tax-pushing conservatives, or tree-hugging liberals (choose whatever leaning you like least - I'm liberal to the conservatives, and conservative to the liberals) to recognise a false claim when I see one.

I recommend a new computer. Google seems to be broken on your current one. Next time you see something you find "shocking", you might want to search on it first to see what others say about it.

@marcwhinery "shocking" is your word - not mine

Obviously there is always room for interpretation, but as it appears there are those who would have the human race responsible for everything from sunspots to icebergs I guess it must be comforting to 'know' that the planet is unable to maintain its equilibrium on its own.

You may well agree with your fellow 'debunkers', but that does not unequivocally mean you are right. Although that is your right.

BTW I apologize for posting the article above without carrying out the necessary research before doing so. Thanks for correcting me.

@marcwhinery @ianmiller
Mixing metaphors with grit a bit, but as a geologist I don't think Ian Plimmer could find a rock in a hard place.
The man has some great ideas, but he never answers a simple question put to him.
I think we can all agree that some form of global warming is taking place, and most of it is solar. If this didn't occur quite literally we would freeze to death.
An whether excess global warming is CO2 man made, Volcanic natural or by Time Travellers. The only one that stacks up to scrutiny is time travelers. The rational for this argument is that both CO2 and Volcanoes have been debunked, and only Time Travellers haven't. Thus its a matter of both elimination and Occam's razor.

@colindavies "only Time Travellers haven’t. Thus its a matter of both elimination and Occam’s razor."

I have yet to see terraforming by aliens to be ruled out. Why is time travel a preferred hypothesis to aliens?

Does this all come back to the discussion of grey vs green?

@marcwhinery . yeah "grey the new green".
"terraforming by Aliens" Ok you have got me there.
Note have been trying to contact you, sent invite via LinkedIn.
Due to personal security reasons I don't use FB or twitter, and the fact that my daughter says I'm too old to use them.

I doubt a policy covering opal file styled conspiracies will get traction with the wider population. Primary of peoples minds at the moment are other stray objects whizzing around the stratosphere interfering with human life, namely missiles.

@colindavies I sent you a text (not long ago) and didn't see anything on LinkedIn. There are too many Colin Davies to identify you there, but not many of me.

I'm the good looking one. :)

@colindavies, I think that might have to be the next proposal topic. "Colin Davies is a good looking man"

**BLOCK**

@marcwhinery @miriampierard Chemical residues are real. I wouldn't breath the exhaust of a car any more than the exhaust of an airplane. I wouldn't clean a tank covered in depleted uranium dust, and we are all victims of atmospheric nuclear testing in the past. Condensation trails are a phenomenon that belittle the chemical residues we often can't see with our naked eye. The polonium that killed a Putin critic was real, and could be traced back across continents. HAARP exists, the Schuman cavity is real, and brain and very low frequency science is evolving. Very low frequency sonar hurts whales. You will have more luck proving that shampoo in hotel chains is designed to make you lose hair, thereby spending more money on hair treatments, until you learn to do your own research and throw the consenus out in favour of the science. Disinformation makes me shy away from polls such as this, because 20% truth is hard to discern from 80% of lies and exagerated claims based on disinformation rather than science and experience. These days I'm more likely to wrap my wallet in tinfoil than my head, just saying :)

Sad there are so many sheeple in NZ. Do yourseves a favor & turn off your televisions and stop listening to the media.

TO THE DEBUNKERS and the sheeple..
*youtube:
1. UN council chemtrails
2. geoengineering protests
*Google: geoengineering patients

(maybe even take a look at a site like geoengineeringwatch.org for example, or facebook groups).

THEN ASK YOURSELVES.. "why is there a world wide gobal MARCH AGAINST CHEMTRAILS and GEOENGINEERING happening on September 27th 2014 ?"

A con trail is water vapor & will disappear in normally well under 30 seconds. A chem trail does not and will dissipate sideways eventually forming a cloud.
I once filmed a plane while spraying on a very still day, - I filmed that same trail 6 hrs 20 mins later because it was still there (only wider & not quite as straight). Con trails DO NOT last hours!
Con trails require certain conditions, high altitude + very cold temperature. So here in NZ we may expect to see some in the winter but not summer. Why then do we see them in the summer? why does one plane create a long lasting white trail on a hot day when others do not? WAKE UP! chemtrails (cloud seeding) is done to create clouds to cool the planet ...so they tell us.