Loomio
Thu 31 Jul 2014 11:38PM

Club Rep Elections

DU [deactivated account] Public Seen by 790

Each club is responsible for their elections/appointments of AHBPA reps. The AHBPA doesn't decide or control how this is done, nor how long their term is.

I am proposing that this remains the case, but that each club announce who their reps are every 6 months. This would help provide structure to the AHBPA and motivate clubs to discuss it and keep on top of it.

Current AHBPA Representatives

Adelaide, AU - Vacant

Auckland, NZ – Pat

Brisbane, AU – Jay Buswell and Tim Geoghegan

Canberra, AU – Nick Dixon-Wilmshurst

Christchurch, NZ – Andy Balcar

Dunedin, NZ - Reuben Vercoe

Hamilton, NZ – Fleur Foreman

Hawera, NZ - Doug Scott

Hobart, AU – Robert Holbrook

Longreach, AU - Ollie Wykeham

Melbourne, AU – David Corrin and Sophie Shaw

Newcastle, AU – Adam Milligan and John Harrington

Perth, AU – Bernard Gourley and Phelan James

Sydney, AU – Kent Harrison and Joelle Miller

Taupo, NZ – Shane Blackmore

Timaru, NZ – Shannon Hardacre and Mike Broadhead

Wellington, NZ – Danny Simpson

DU

Poll Created Thu 31 Jul 2014 11:41PM

AHBPA reps be announced by their clubs biannually Closed Thu 14 Aug 2014 1:08PM

Outcome
by [deactivated account] Tue 25 Apr 2017 5:23AM

Each club announce their AHBPA reps biannually on the 1st of May and November. The system of elections is solely up to the club as well as the time period they will stand for.

Clubs announce their AHBPA rep(s) at the end of April and the end of October.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 100.0% 15 ST DU N DCM JHN ABC OB A DSS JBH TM A[ P DU FF
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 15 MP S JB R K P[ D GG JM RV MC KJW TG BG JT(

15 of 30 people have voted (50%)

OB

Ollie BNE
Agree
Fri 1 Aug 2014 12:13AM

Good proposition. Allows for a regular changing of the guard.

DCM

David Corrin MEL
Agree
Fri 1 Aug 2014 12:18AM

seems good to me.

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Fri 1 Aug 2014 2:36AM

or 1st May and 1st November

ST

Sam TIM
Agree
Fri 1 Aug 2014 10:42AM

great!!

N

NickDW [CBR]
Agree
Fri 1 Aug 2014 12:21PM

eminently sensible

DSS

Daniel Strout SYD
Agree
Sat 2 Aug 2014 12:27AM

Will also allow for more people to "get in the loop" to spread the AHBPA knowledge around.

JBH

John Bennett HBA
Agree
Sat 2 Aug 2014 5:37AM

Into it.

TM

Tom MLB
Agree
Sat 2 Aug 2014 7:36AM

Agreed

JHN

John H NTL
Agree
Wed 6 Aug 2014 1:08PM

Sounds good

P

Punk (PER)
Agree
Tue 12 Aug 2014 10:33AM

Seem like a good idea, we've just done this in Perth

FF

Fleur Foreman
Agree
Wed 13 Aug 2014 10:22PM

May need to update wording as biannually = every two years. Semiannual can be every 6 months :)

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 1 Aug 2014 2:36AM

Or 1st of May and 1st of November..

A[

Alan [AKL] Thu 14 Aug 2014 3:31AM

Are you getting confused with biennially Fleur? ;P

JBH

John Bennett HBA Sun 12 Oct 2014 12:43PM

From Hobart AGM:

New reps: Alex Grant and Robert Holbrook

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 13 Oct 2014 9:08AM

Farewell @johnbennett1
Welcome Alex and Robert. Speaking of, how do we get new users on here?

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 15 Oct 2014 12:24PM

@nickdw Sam can add new users as this was his creation. I've also got access to add people that have requested.

@johnbennett1 can you please ask them to request membership and i'll add them. cheers mate

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 24 Oct 2014 12:08AM

one week until November 1st and requirements to announce current reps for you town.

N

NickDW [CBR] Sat 1 Nov 2014 6:47AM

I announced that I am remaining CBR rep on the Australasian Hardcourt Bike Polo group and the Canberra Bike Polo group.

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 11 Nov 2014 1:24AM

Soooooooooo. Anyone else announced their reps yet?

DU

[deactivated account] Thu 13 Nov 2014 12:28AM

Sydney are still in discussions.

ABC

Andy Balcar CHC Sat 22 Nov 2014 9:18AM

Well it looks I am Christchurch's rep for another 6 months.

A

AdamM [NTL] Fri 28 Nov 2014 12:50AM

John and I are still the Newcastle reps.

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 28 Nov 2014 2:05AM

Sydney has appointed Kent Harrison to replace Daniel Strout. Thank you to Daniel for all his work over the years on the jedi council. May the force be with you.

N

NickDW [CBR] Fri 28 Nov 2014 5:57AM

As the returning officer in Melbourne's recent election I'll announce that Dave and Dante have been elected as MBP's reps. Tom Partington did not nominate. Many thanks to Tom for his efforts and input.

OB

Ollie BNE Thu 4 Dec 2014 1:23AM

Brisbane have done the typical Briisbane thing and held a vote, which only ten people voted in, and held an AGM that only six people showed up to. But at the end of the exhaustive process democracy had its day and Jamie and I were re-elected as reps (FOR NOW!!).

To be honest though, the only way for us to hold a vote or a meeting is to bribe everyone with beer or disguse it as a party. So we are having a hush hush AGM at our Xmas party which may deliver a different result for the next half years reps.

DU

[deactivated account] Thu 4 Dec 2014 7:16AM

@ollie1 keep in mind that you can hold your elections whenever you like and change as frequent or infrequent as you wish - it's just that they need to be announced to the AHBPA on those 6 month periods.

ABC

Andy Balcar CHC Thu 4 Dec 2014 8:24AM

Carissa is still the other Rep for ChCh - welcome back Carissa

A[

Alan [AKL] Thu 18 Dec 2014 1:01AM

Alan and Pat are Auckland's reps. Have invited Pat to the group.

OB

Ollie BNE Thu 22 Jan 2015 6:51AM

Ollie and Jamie are staying BNE reps for the future. No one else can be bothered.

N

NickDW [CBR] Fri 13 Feb 2015 11:57AM

Can we keep the description of the thread updated with the current reps? That way we know how many there are when counting votes and participation for decisions.

N

NickDW [CBR] Fri 13 Feb 2015 12:02PM

OK, I remembered bikepolo.com.au listed reps, so I copied that, added it to the description, and updated with the results listed here. Can people fix it if I've missed something?

ST

Sam TIM Mon 23 Feb 2015 8:49AM

Heya.
So after a fair stint of Jedi-ing I've stepped down as Timaru rep.
Logic is two fold.
1. It's been a while and be good to get a fresh rep involved
2. Worlds fills my polo thoughts and so I'm not set up to rep for timaru.

So we had a casual vote/chat and the very capable Richard Brown will take my place.

I'd like to suggest that perhaps I stick around, not as a rep but just to answer/respond to worlds related discussion. To clarify, Loomio isn't the main forum for organisation. I'm sure there will be some discussions here.

Chur chur

OB

Ollie BNE Tue 24 Feb 2015 7:11AM

Chur, can't lose you from here Sam!

P

Punk (PER) Thu 26 Feb 2015 1:45AM

After some delay since Ned moved town PCP have finally got together and voted Mike Critch into his place as rep and i'm to stay on.

Thanks Ned for your help since getting voted in last year!

Can we get Critch added please.

OB

Ollie BNE Wed 1 Apr 2015 6:42AM

Im stepping down as Brisbane rep. There will be a vote sometime.

My reason: Im sick of polo and all its bullshit. Im going back to playing it and having fun. Good luck with the future Jedi's.

ST

Sam TIM Wed 1 Apr 2015 8:09PM

Really sorry to hear this @ollie1, #bringbackthefun

Thanks for your contribution over the years to this forum/community.

OB

Ollie BNE Fri 24 Apr 2015 2:03AM

Our vote came at a tie and no one is rushing to fill the spot, so you are stuck with me until someone basically steps up. Sorry our club is slow.

On the point of reps and numbers, I see the numbers of reps as a voting power. I see it as hard for clubs like Perth, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane which have regular large attendance having similar numbers of reps and votes as smaller clubs.

I did a rough count the other day of regular players (minimum once a fortnight players) and we have over 20. We also have another 10-15 monthly or more players. We have over 40 players registered in our club (some have since retired).

If this council is meant to emulate some form of representative democracy why is there a disparity in representation and voting?

My proposal is:

ether we add another rep for clubs that have over 20 regular players and re assess these levels every six months

or have one rep per club and two once a club reaches a certain size (say 15 regular players)

This ad hock system of one or two reps doesn't help when we are making votes as reps are meant to represent a group of players.

A[

Alan [AKL] Fri 24 Apr 2015 2:20AM

I'm not sure if I agree with you Ollie.

I see it more like the UN. The General assembly is made up of 190 odd member states, and each has equal voting power. Some issues may affect smaller clubs more or less then larger clubs, so it's important they have a voice. Similar to how climate change affects a tiny island nation more than a massive world super power, but both nations have equal vote.

What you are proposing gives more power to larger clubs, and takes away influence from smaller clubs. At the same time we know that Australia has a larger population than New Zealand so New Zealand clubs' opinions (under your proposal) will always be considered less important.

We all know that club sizes fluctuate, so it could be logistically time consuming (not to mention arbitrary) monitoring the representation of each rep.

DCM

David Corrin MEL Sat 25 Apr 2015 4:40AM

I think that the jedi council's use of constituent representative model has worked will and will continue to work well into the future. I think the need for multiple representatives is useful as it reduces the load on any one person to follow the council's movements and report back to the community. If we were to change voting power of regions to further reflect the size of their constituency I don't necessarily think we would need to change the number of reps but rather just the weight of the vote. This is not an endorsement just a reflection on how this could Ollie's idea could be done differently.

The difficulty with this model of representation is that constituent representatives really only echo the majority view of their constituency. In the worst case scenario this could mean 49% of people in any constituency are not heard by the larger jedi council. If we did move to a higher weighting for the rep/s or even a higher rep number it would not serve to more equally represent the larger constituency where there was a less than unanimous or closely tied decision and could lead to domination by a large scene.

Here's how;

Imagine that melbourne gets like 400 players and as a result gets a huge vote or rep number on the jedi council. If we keep the same democratic format and the vote for any decision in melbourne goes down to the wire we could see a decision go against the popular vote nationwide when considering individuals because our 49% who get outvoted could, when combined with the individuals nationwide, make a majority.

TL:DR; Proportional representation in systems of constituent representation can lead to democratic decisions being made against the popular vote. Especially where there is great disparities in sizes of constituencies.

I think we need to move away from the flat hierarchy for decision making (but not voting) as it is very hard to progress in any direction without vision and leadership. I think NAH has made leaps and bounds because of its clearly defined roles and areas of responsibility.

D.

DU

[deactivated account] Sat 25 Apr 2015 12:00PM

Yes, the idea of having voted weighted to number of players makes sense, but as mentioned above, how this works in a practical way needs thinking.

Sydney has one of the larger scenes and I've never heard this point being raised or pushed by our players, in fact, Virginia a previous rep, was quite strong in pushing for more representation to have smaller clubs with two reps.

Bigger clubs already get more representation purely with discussion input on Loomio. BNE, MEL and SYD, have a (weighted) strong presence here already - just not specifically in voting.

I'd like to ask if we think the problem needs fixing? Has there actually been any votes that are that close? Do we actually vote on things often enough?

N

NickDW [CBR] Sat 25 Apr 2015 3:15PM

OK, I'm a ridiculous political nerd. And elections and voting systems and representation models are my thing. So it's not surprising I'm the Canberra rep.

So here is my perspective (mine, not my club's).

Firstly - There is nothing that mandates that both reps vote according to the majority view of a club. if each club has two reps, and the club is split close to 50/50 on an issue, then the club can vote each way and essentially cancel themselves out. If a club decides to bind their reps to vote with the majority view of the club, that is currently a decision for a club and isn't required by any council rules.

second - let's not worry about if we ever have 400 member clubs. If we get to that point we will have other issues. At the moment we struggle to get engagement with the levels of representation we have. More reps is not necessarily the answer. More votes isn't either. In Canberra, I reckon I could quite easily get a bunch of people to sign up as members of Canberra bike polo for free. They never play, they don't attend meetings, but would they count for representation purposes? I could inflate my numbers just to get me more votes on council. How would you all know any better?
The same goes for your clubs - how do the rest of us know how many members you have? How do we know that the members you claim to have were consulted when making your decisions? We don't. And I don't think we want to impose the requirements on clubs that might make the rest of us confident that you are legit. Far easier to give clubs two reps each and accept that small clubs probably won't be able to find more than one rep (e.g. Canberra). Also, that even if a club can find two, it may turn out that they don't participate much.

Lastly - it doesn't matter how many reps there are or how many votes they have. what matters is whether there are people on this council willing to make proposals and then argue for their proposals and organise the numbers. If I want the Jedi Council to make it an Australasian rule that only wheelie goals count I should have to convince enough reps that it's a good idea that they bother to turn up on Loomio to vote. And if I can do that, then maybe it's a good rule. I use that as a ridiculous example, but the point is, if I have a large club and lots of votes then I could create jedi decisions without needing to involve many clubs at all. At least in the current situation there is no limited collection of clubs that can dominate the others.

I may have more thoughts, but that's it for now.

OB

Ollie BNE Sun 26 Apr 2015 2:36AM

@nickdw I love that there is another politics nerd on here!

I agree with you, and am happy we can havethis debate!

Another simple solution (as this current system aint broke so why smash it agaist the wall) could be alocate a uniform 2 reps per city. Then for serious issues where a consensus of our region is needed (for example the inclusion of another country into this body, or if we were to ever split nations perminently) we then have a formal vote on bikepolo.com.au of all players in the region.

Maybe this is another function to consider adding to the redevelpoment of the site.

DCM

David Corrin MEL Mon 27 Apr 2015 12:21AM

Nerds for days! Great discussion.

I think that the real energy we need to devote to this space is regarding roles and responsibility. I think the voting model works well for the reasons @nickdw stated relating to garnishing support for a change being a good litmus test for it's suitability. I'm on the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" side of this.

I think that if people are passionate about something then they should have the opportunity, with the consent of the group, to head a campaign or area of development, I'm thinking of my own interest in the the ruleset and refereeing or perhaps Ollie's interest in infrastructure and courts, and brooks skills as an organiser. I'd personally like to have some tasks to really knuckle down on with regard to my area of interest. At the moment I feel a bit like running with the ball in my area of interest might be construed as "doing my own thing" and might be counterproductive if the group isn't on board. I guess I could just run things by the Jedi but I think a clear role in my case with some objectives would give me a bit more confidence to go about achieving those goals with the confidence that I have the support of the community.

For instance, Ned and I are attending Ladies Army 7 but won't be playing the co-ed or obviously the main tourney. It would be great for the Jedi council to contact the organisers and offer our (mine and Ned's) services as referees for the tournament in some official capacity. Like envoys of sorts. Use us is basically what I'm saying. We need better penetration into their scene to promote worlds. I'd love to know how we can best use our time over there for the benefit of our scene and polo in general.

Sorry to railroad with a specific example.

D.

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 27 Apr 2015 12:44AM

@ollie1 I fully support scene-wide plebiscites, noting the potential challenges with vote-rigging if we don't have formal membership structures.

@davidcorrin as far as I'm concerned this can be achieved through proposals. In any other formal meeting structure it would be a motion. Something like "The AHBPA resolves to endorse Dave and Ned as official referees for LA7. AHBPA asks Dave and Ned to report back on blah blah blah" basically, write out what you think your job description should be and we vote. Just remember for a valid decision we need at least 50% of reps voting and a majority of those voting in favour.
Just put the proposal in a discussion thread relevant to the job you want to do so we can track it.

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 1 May 2015 1:25AM

IMPORTANT: Each city is to announce it's reps on May and November the 1st.

A[

Alan [AKL] Fri 1 May 2015 1:14PM

Alan and Pat remain reps for AKL.

JM

James McKellar Sat 2 May 2015 3:57AM

I'm to stay rep for Dunedin.

DU

[deactivated account] Sat 2 May 2015 4:42AM

Sydney reps are @kent-syd and @joellemiller

A

AdamM [NTL] Mon 4 May 2015 12:33AM

No change to the Newcastle reps. It's still John and I doing our usual half-arsed job.

P

Punk (PER) Mon 4 May 2015 5:00AM

Perth will be staying with myself and Mike

R

Robert [HBT] Mon 4 May 2015 6:56AM

Alex and myself are staying on as Hobart reps.

JHN

John H NTL Mon 4 May 2015 8:36AM

What he ^ said. Together we make a whole arse!

GKD

Gavin King DN Tue 5 May 2015 6:17AM

I am the other half of Dunedin's representatives.

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 5 May 2015 6:42AM

Can reps please include their city's three letter code in their name?

OB

Ollie BNE Sun 12 Jul 2015 2:43AM

I know Bennet itsnt on this so won't be offended when I say: can we remove the Gold coast please? They haven't played since 2012/13.

OB

Ollie BNE Sun 12 Jul 2015 2:44AM

And isn't Claire now the other Melbourne rep?

N

NickDW [CBR] Sat 13 Feb 2016 2:40AM

So with Worlds over, now's a good time to start talking our region again. I imagine there's a lot to discuss - for example - where the next Australasians is held, do we keep/revive our own ruleset, how do we structure the AHBPA - so it would be good to confirm who the city reps are.
If you feel it necessary to hold elections in your club that's up to you and your club. Whatever you do, please tell us who the reps are.

R

Robert [HBT] Sun 14 Feb 2016 8:47AM

Alex will step down as Hobart rep, but I will remain.

N

NickDW [CBR] Sun 14 Feb 2016 9:39AM

Thanks for being a rep Alex

Robert - will Hobart elect a new 2nd rep?

R

Robert [HBT] Sun 14 Feb 2016 9:48PM

No, not at this stage.

N

NickDW [CBR] Thu 3 Mar 2016 8:42PM

Welcome to @reubenvercoe and @mathewcumming from Dunedin, NZ and Nelson, NZ respectively.

RB

Richard Brown Fri 7 Oct 2016 2:54AM

I am stepping down as Timaru rep & Karl Whittleston is new Timaru rep with Mike.
I will add him in. Cheers

N

NickDW [CBR] Fri 7 Oct 2016 3:48AM

Thanks Richard. And welcome Karl.

OB

Ollie BNE Sun 6 Nov 2016 8:22AM

So we just held a vote at pickup and Tim is the new Brisbane rep. Can I add him or does someone else want to. He is replacing me.

So Baby Jamie and Tim Googs are the Brisbane reps.

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 7 Nov 2016 11:54AM

Thanks for your efforts over the years Ollie.

I'm happy to add Googs if you haven't already.

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 29 Nov 2016 12:13PM

OK, I've removed Mike Critch and Punk as Perth Reps and replaced them with Bernard Gourley, that correct @bernardgourlay?

BG

Bernard Gourlay Tue 6 Dec 2016 11:03AM

Hey Nick, that's correct. Sorry I'm still getting used to the Loomio way of reading threads.

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 6 Dec 2016 1:01PM

I think this is a pretty useful platform, once we get the hang of it.

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 12 Dec 2016 9:30PM

I have been told by @andybalcar that @carissa will be standing down from the council, and Jeremy Teague will take her place as a Christchurch rep. Thanks Carissa for your work as a rep.

N

NickDW [CBR] Sun 22 Jan 2017 8:15PM

From the Melbourne AGM yesterday I've been told that @andrewhayward is no longer Melbourne's rep. Thanks for your work as a rep Andy!

Dave and Georgia have been elected/selected/appointed (I didn't ask for the process just the outcome) to the council. I'll get them both on here soon.

MP

Mike Polo [TIM] Sun 22 Jan 2017 10:32PM

I would like propose that each club has 2 reps "as per" but only 1 vote !

This will help and force the clubs to have more open clearer discussions which are not currently happening (I firmly beileve) internally with both reps requiring to "sum" up "players/clubs requests.

Thoughts ?

A[

Alan [AKL] Sun 22 Jan 2017 10:38PM

Either one member, and one vote, or two members and two votes.

MP

Mike Polo [TIM] Sun 22 Jan 2017 10:46PM

DUH ! but this doesn't get the people talkiing based on confused players on FB.
The reps need to work togther, I only say this due to reps themselves being confused with options for Melbourne Tournament on FB "concerned"

A[

Alan [AKL] Sun 22 Jan 2017 10:51PM

I don't think it was the fault of Loomio that reps were confused. They either didn't read everything, or took statements out of context. The problem as I see it was that cities' reps were not asking for clarification from the council on the proposal when they were unsure. Instead, they voted on a proposal without knowing what they were voting for, and then complained afterwards when they didn't get the result they wanted. I'm a huge fan of transparency. All players in Australasia had access to public Loomio threads, and more easily, Nick H. who can answer any questions.

MP

Mike Polo [TIM] Sun 22 Jan 2017 10:58PM

Agree 100%

A[

Alan [AKL] Sun 29 Jan 2017 6:53AM

Hi. I'm standing down as Auckland rep without replacement.

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 30 Jan 2017 3:48AM

Sorry to hear that Alan. I've appreciated your willingness to engage and represent your club.

N

NickDW [CBR] Mon 30 Jan 2017 6:49AM

Welcome to Loomio @georgiagrace representing Melbourne.

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 7 Feb 2017 9:17AM

Welcome @scott4

N

NickDW [CBR] Thu 12 Oct 2017 12:08AM

Welcome back Ollie - now as Rep for Longreach.

I want to post in the Australasian group again about confirming / updating reps. But before I do, can you please reply to this to confirm the reps for your city are as they appear in the thread description above?

N

NickDW [CBR] Wed 1 Nov 2017 8:39PM

I'd like to welcome @sophieshaw1 representing Melbourne, and farewell @georgiagrace. Thanks for your work, George, especially at the start of the year

N

NickDW [CBR] Tue 5 Dec 2017 10:17AM

Welcome Danny Simpson (when he accepts the invite) the rep from Wellington.

DS

Danny Simpson Tue 5 Dec 2017 8:11PM

Thanks Nick!!