Loomio
Sat 9 Sep 2023 4:37PM

Changes to the fiscal hosting arrangements for social.coop

G Graham Public Seen by 225

Providing this information by way of background/context, and to raise awareness, and stimulate discussion, with a view to one or two proposals:

For the last couple of years or so social.coop has worked with Platform 6 Development Cooperative. Platform 6 is a UK-based cooperative development organisation, which acts as a fiscal host on the Open Collective platform in support of innovative cooperative initiatives which don't have their own legal entity or bank account. From the Platform 6 perspective this partnership has in the main worked well. Platform cooperative initiatives like social.coop are exactly the type of thing Platform 6 was set up to encourage and support.

Shortly after we started providing this service, we (myself and my fellow Platform 6 directors at that time) decided that it was more trouble than it was worth to charge a fee for the service, in part because of the way that Open Collective handles that aspect, and the resulting book-keeping complexities that it created for us.

We're now a couple of years down the road, having learned a lot. Partly as a result of changes happening with Platform 6, we wanted to raise this thread and engage more widely with the social.coop community of users.

There are two issues that I want to raise, and to a degree they are linked:

  1. The issue of compensation. As above we chose early on to provide the service (initially at least) to social.coop without making any charge. We were learning about how it all worked, and this was a sensible choice at the time. Two years or so down the road, we think that the work we've been doing is useful to social.coop, and that it is now fair and reasonable that social.coop makes a modest contribution towards costs. In our experience the work involved in handing the book-keeping and dealing with expense payouts, etc amounts to 2 or 3 hours of work per month. Note that most of the fiscal hosts on the Open Collective platform do make a charge - up to about 10% of the value of contributions. I've informally discussed this with @Matt Noyes a while back.

  2. Things are in the process of change at Platform 6. For various reasons the founding group have largely chosen to step back, and whilst we continue to have a supportive membership we don't – in our current form – have the capacity to continue operations in a useful way. This was identified some while ago, and so steps were taken to look at how we could move forward constructively. We were keen as part of this to enable a seamless transition for the collectives we host if at all possible. We are working now to complete a process whereby Platform 6 will continue, as a subsidiary of innovation.coop. So the relationships will remain as is for hosted collectives. I've included a bit more below about innovation.coop and why this is all seen a positive step forward.

As it happens as well being part of Platform 6 I'm also a member of the founding group behind innovation.coop. This is not a coincidence: both organisation are born out thinking and work that I did in about 2008 with a colleague, and which was subsequently flavoured with all the stuff that's happened in the interim with platform cooperatives and the growing power of the GAFAM tech giants in the online world over the last fifteen years. innovation.coop is a fairly new cooperative organisation that is working to become what I call an "entrepreneurial ecosystem-enabling cooperative'. We've talked about it as a protective 'biome' under whose cooperative canopy lots of cooperative innovation can take place in an environment where cooperation is the default setting.

There's more about it on the website (although that's not currently as clear or simple as we want it be). As a business development and support organisation in its own right, innovation.coop has the notion of fiscal hosting as part of its emerging service portfolio. It is also focussing on digitally oriented business models, so when I raised the possibility of taking on some of the work that Platform 6 has been engaged in the idea was enthusiastically supported. Platform 6 provides fiscal hosting to over 30 collective groups, most if not all of a cooperative nature, and the two most prominent among them being social.coop and meet.coop. Both of these important initiatives are close to innovation.coop's heart in being digitally oriented as well as cooperative, and are highly aligned to innovation.coop's plans for similar services. innovation.coop is soon to go live with an email service and has been working for some time on a hosting service utilising cooperatively owned hardware hosted in a cooperative data centre in the UK. We believe that there is lots of potential for collaboration, cooperation and innovation in this space, and we're excited to be exploring and creating new relationships.

innovation.coop would be keen to develop a closer relationship with social.coop than Platform 6 had the capacity to do, and is also now about to launch into a programme of work with meet.coop with the aim of stabilising and developing that business, building on the great work of the founding group, and working in cooperation with (at least) two other cooperatives to make that happen.

NS

Nathan Schneider Sun 10 Sep 2023 2:12PM

Thank you for starting this discussion, @Graham ! I think the move to innovation.coop is a good one. And as a member of the Finance Working Group, I can attest that we can absolutely afford to provide some financial support to our fiscal host relationship. As a member in general, I believe we should do that. It would be very helpful to have a more active relationship with our host.

JD

Josh Davis Sun 10 Sep 2023 4:31PM

I second Nathan on that. We discussed at one of our last finance meetings that we should make a donation to Platform 6 for providing the fiscal sponsor service, so we could easily do the same thing for innovation.coop. Is innovation going to be on the Open Collective platform as well?

G

Graham Mon 11 Sep 2023 7:38AM

@Josh Davis Thanks for responding. At this point we've not looked far enough ahead to ascertain whether innovation.coop will set up shop on Open Collective directly, or whether Platform 6 remains the best vehicle through which to provide that service. The mindset of innovation.coop is "why do it ourselves directly if we can collaborate with an existing (and preferably cooperative) provider" – this plays into our purpose of ecosystem building. We need to think it through in a bit more depth. As regards compensation for services provided, I had envisaged that Platform 6 could submit a monthly or quarterly claim, just as any other expense would be claimed, based on an agreed level. But of course that's open for debate.

K

Katanova Mon 11 Sep 2023 8:17AM

@GrahamI have an inactive collective through the OpenCollective fiscal host and the way that works is that fees are charges based on transactions. It might make more sense for Platform 6 to charge a flat fee per month for services.

G

Graham Mon 11 Sep 2023 8:21AM

@Katanova Thanks. That's absolutely right - we would want to agree and charge a flat fee. Apart from anything else it makes the admin a whole lot simpler. And of course that fee could be reviewed periodically.

NS

Nathan Schneider Mon 11 Sep 2023 2:20PM

@Graham Agreed on the fee approach.

Given what you say about P6's continuity, @Graham, do we really even need a proposal to transition hosts? Perhaps if P6 is simply being absorbed into innovation.coop, then what we're talking about is not a proposal to switch fiscal hosts but an announcement that our host is shifting its structure.

We would need a proposal on the fee structure, however, which I would support.

AES

@Nathan Schneider I would say absorbed into within Innovation‍.coop. As I have cross-posted below, Innovation‍.coop and P6 will take the necessary steps for a proper transition, but we don’t exactly know what that looks like.

Once this transition is complete though, Innovation‍.coop would be our fiscal host (based on a to-be-defined co-operative arrangement with P6), but perhaps social‍.coop members can validate this continued relationship (proposal: consensus).

A

Alex Sun 10 Sep 2023 7:18PM

Thanks for raising. This seems like a good development. I'm in favour of funding our dependencies!

NS

Nathan Schneider Mon 11 Sep 2023 2:20PM

@Alex Well put.

NS

Nathan Schneider Mon 11 Sep 2023 2:20PM

@Graham Can you say a bit about the structure of innovation.coop? Is it itself a co-op? Who are its members?

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