Kendraio

>It doesn't matter how good the thing is, the goodness doesn't, in itself, make for success: creation and adoption.

That is an overriding point, isn't it? We do have to build for people who already want to use the app and are ready to work with us as users. Maybe a good way to simplify our thought processes too.

Hello @Bob Haugen , thanks for all your awesome links and information. Yes! However, I'm realising, as much as I'd love to obsess over the finer details of the subtleties and variations of how people interact with each other, there are some blockers for me in doing this: mostly time.

I want to realise (make real) and get adopted a system for self organisation. I am no scientist. I'm a dreamer. I'm not a developer. And I find myself being rather one tracked in my interactions. Do I feel a sense of time slipping away? And therefor giving myself less meandering time?

Yes, @Lynn Foster I think this

might end up being in the killer app category

too. But how does one get other people to see that? And what does one do once they do? I've been exploring this idea for over 20 years and there's a big trick that I've been missing. It doesn't matter how good the thing is, the goodness doesn't, in itself, make for success: creation and adoption. So, this is what I'm drawn to: the art of manifestation. I don't know how this will be built or adopted. But I do know it needs people to work together and feel emotionally involved. So, now after building a very rudimentary alpha demo of Kendraio App, my task is in fostering working relationships around it.

It doesn't really matter exactly what those working relationships are just as long as the combined thing has (perceived) benefit to both parties. So, yes, @pospi let's build the simplest and quickest thing first: the last one on your list:

inventory management.

Let's start doing something that we can collectively build on.

I guess I say all this because I want to give you all background on my current thinking and focus. And perhaps this is an apology for not being able to dive into semantic detail on any one workflow, and why this necessitates me being effectively dismissive of more complex ideas at this stage in the game. I am focusing on the mechanics of manifestation, creation and adoption. This area is so complex. And human psychology (tribal allegiances and energetics) has such a huge part to play here too. And I feel that part of our collective emancipation is dependent on us naming the human influence on success and bringing clarity and light to it. And once we understand it, use it to our collective advantage.

Anyway, all that said, let's play – and build little toys that people can interact with. Boom! 🎉

Praise be to APIs! 🙏

@pospi and I will report back after our Tuesday call. Onward! Cheers!

@Daniel Harris there are a few bits of UI that we're keen on developing as initial projects... it's hard to get a gauge of what is useful in terms of pushing Kendraio forward but I can at least try to describe them a bit in terms of our needs. We can expand more when we chat next week (:

• Flow visualisation / authoring UI. There's a fairly long thread talking about the requirements for this visual design language here. That's a pretty big project with complex UI requirements, but if that's the sort of thing you want to push ahead with then it's a great candidate. I would start with "view" before moving on to "edit", but that's just me.

• The "personal agent app" @Bob Haugen is talking about is also quite a big project, but definitely easier to build. Mostly just forms. An older project which was building towards this can be found here for comparison / exploration.

• For our own needs, and to get us dogfooding the software sooner, I'd really like to see a work logging app. The queries to support that might be quite complicated though, because you'll have to "think in VF concepts" when mapping queries to the simplified UI that a Kanban board offers. But @Lynn Foster can probably help with that (;

• The easiest one to do is probably inventory management. That only needs to query resources and create events that manipulate them.

Hope that helps to give some sense of our immediate goals!

The spec for the ValueFlows API is at https://github.com/valueflows/vf-graphql/ if you're interested in integrating it. That will give you some stuff to work with in Holochain REA networks (core features only at present, but work is ongoing), as well as eventually the ActivityPub. While that would be very cool for us, I do wonder whether the present state of the project makes it worth your while. You probably want something production-ready to plug into, huh? In which case https://thegraph.com/ would be a worthwhile candidate because then you can do Ethereum stuff. Which ones to pick would depend on your ideological positioning, but things like voting systems, token-based community currencies & donations could be useful to some?

@Daniel Harris That list is describing a Personal Agent app. You can read more at https://github.com/valueflows/vf-apps-agents/issues/2

@Daniel Harris I like @Bob Haugen 's suggestions more than where my head went first (project level visualization). It fits well into your statement "The stated aim of Kendraio App is to provide a dashboard for a person to better manage their digital life: whether their business life or their personal life.". I'm not too good at predicting this kind of future, but I think the "personal dashboard" idea with control of your data and access to whatever your life involves might end up being in the killer app category. :)

@Daniel Harris here are some ideas about how a person might want to interact in a social+economic network:

https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/view/64P7o1b-7n8WCppvlhlHoC6xqs6TYqgfuQsE7rrMxn8/

The basic ideas there are that people want to:

• send messages to each other, which could be purely social, or could also be economic.

• post economic actions like recording their work or what they created.

• see all the economic actions that they could be or have been involved in. For example, all the available offers and requests, or all the work they have done or exchanges they have participated in.

• comment on economic actions where their comment links to the economic action, and the presentation of the economic action shows the comments that have been posted about it. This would similar to the usual comments on a blog post.

• see and manage all the resources they are responsible for or have access to.

• see where they fit into their larger contexts, which could be an organization or a process flow visualization or a map. The cryptpad shows an example of a process flow, and here's an organization visualization: http://holodex.enspiral.com/

What kinds of visualizations can you or do you want to show?

Anything that a human would do. How does a human interact with a scenario? I mean the human user interface. Like a set of screens. Mockups. Anything?

The logic is not so important to me at this stage. What is important (to me) is what it looks like to an end user, and what they can functionally do with the interface. Even in the roughest sense is fine. Any scenarios spring to mind?

cc @Lynn Foster @Bob Haugen @pospi

>For completeness, @Lynn Foster has been defining validation logic for ValueFlows apps.

Just looked and this is not really very usable, github issues with lots of discussion. I'll get it on my list to pull it into a real document somewhere, with notes as to what is not nailed down.

Re visualizations: I did a bunch of experiments with them in http://valueflows.pythonanywhere.com/

For example, http://valueflows.pythonanywhere.com/vocab/egg2worm-flow/

I can help with back-end logic.