New Help documentation - we want your feedback!

Also, what does the grey shading on some discussions in the dashboard mean?

Hi @presley, thanks very much for your feedback! I'll definitely incorporate the things you've mentioned into the documentation.

In answer to your first question about subgroup content visibility, whether the parent group can see a subgroup's content is dependant on the subgroup's discussion privacy.

When you create a new subgroup you will be given the option to make it visible to the parent group. If you decide that your group should be visible to members of the parent but not public, then in the "Who can see discussions?" segment of the "Privacy" settings, you can choose to make discussions visible to members of the parent, or to members of the group only. If you choose to make discussions visible to members only, then members of the parent will be able to see that the group exists, but not see the content. I've attached a screenshot of these options to clarify:

To answer your second question, the intended design is that the grey shading means new activity, but there are some kinks that we're working on :)

Hey thanks so much for the engagement thus far folks - greatly appreciated!

Thanks to @denjello's great suggestion, there are now links back to this feedback discussion at the bottom of each section (see attachment). Please keep the feedback coming! I'll implement the other suggested changes asap :)

La nouvelle page d'aide semble très fournie et bien organisée.
Besoin d'une traduction en français pour vraiment en juger :-)

Rappel : ici une aide en français qui pourrait compléter la version anglaise, ou suggérer une rubrique "trucs et asctuces"

@hannahsalmon since we can't translate all the help documentation right away, maybe just links to user generated help in other languages would be a good step? The one @philippeponge mentioned here and also I know there were some Spanish and Greek resources.

@alanna, when you visit www.loomio.org/help with you browser set to a language other than English you are directed to the old help docs. We didn't want language to be a barrier to receiving help while we're still developing the new documentation. Maybe I should put links to the user generated help we have access to on both the new and old help docs?

Hi you all! I think that having the help in Spanish will be awesome so I'm happy to help (volunteer) getting that done. Once the documentation is polished please let me know and I can get into it on Transifex I'm assuming...?

Yea yea yea. Can we please translate the help now?

I was hoping to have some useful feedback on the (generally awesome, epic) help page but I lacked capacity to focus on that. I understand the desire to translate ASAP, perhaps especially for the many Spanish speakers.

On a related note, @hannahsalmon , I guess the help page isn't entirely 'live' yet? I haven't seen a way to navigate to it, whether logged in or not. Are you guys planning to fully connect it and to translate it during the same frame of time?

I'm hoping that the Help page will become a prominent navigational option, either directly accessible on the index page or as a submenu option for "About", which is essentially an "About Us" page now (for some superb people). I've noticed that "About" isn't currently indexed for visitors, but it's linked prominently a fair ways down the middle of the page.

I just noticed that Gmail will often include a link to their help docs as part of the "flash message". I.e. "You just moved this discussion out of your inbox. Find out more."

I don't wanna make your life more complicated @hannahsalmon but @presley had a great comment in "how can we make it easy for people to keep up to date with Loomio progress" today. I think it would be awesome if possible to add something small but prominent to the "Help" page, to address how users can keep up with Loomio development and (if they choose) become actively contributing members of the community.

For instance, the Help page is currently structured as:

"How do I get started?
1.Start a group to collaborate with people on Loomio
2.Invite people into your group
3.Start a discussion on any topic
4.Make a proposal to see how everyone feels about a particular course of action
5.Decide together: "

To me right now, it would actually make lots of sense to add something like "6.Follow the Loomio story." and link that to some very simple, clear info on how to follow updates (twitter, Trello roadmap, blog) and to join this Loomio Community if desired.

I do realize that I'm saying this over two weeks after you first asked for feedback, and you probably want to or need to press forward. O:)

Hey feedback-providers, I've just updated the help docs to include Presley's suggestions, so please keep them coming :)

@gregorycassel, thanks very much for your input. You can access the Help page from inside the app by clicking on your user menu and selecting “Help”. But I’ve also just put a link in the footer, and we we are currently thinking about the best ways to expose it so that people can find it when they need it.

Hmm, I’m not sure about putting a 6th step into that initial quick start guide, but I think you’re right in that the help docs could be a good place to inform users of how they can keep up with Loomio development and/or become contributing members of the community.

Currently there are two questions in the FAQ section of the help docs that relate to engaging with Loomio development:

“What if I have a feature to suggest?” and “What’s coming up in the Loomio development pipeline?”

…but I’m aware that doesn’t cover everything that has been discussed in that thread, and is the FAQ too invisible? Maybe there should be a whole section called something like “Contributing to Loomio” or even just "The Loomio Community" which could include explanations of the various aspects to the community - open source contributions, the roadmap, this here group etc..?

I do think that a section called something like "Contributing to Loomio" or "The Loomio Community" would be helpful. Also, it seems like a lack of awareness of the trello roadmap (especially Ideas Backlog) comes up pretty often. The upvoting on trello cards would be more meaningful if more people engaged there. It would be helpful IMO to create more passive awareness of trello. :)

Related to Greg's idea, here are some questions I've had (some of which I still have) regarding participating in the community:

• should users start a proposals in the Loomio Community? (it seems like generally no, as when people do, they get like 10 votes and then think that because 8 people agreed, something should happen)
• should I vote or comment on the Trello cards (so few people do that I'm not sure if I'm being obnoxious when I do)
• should I revive really old discussions or start new ones?
• should I suggest a feature even though it's a bad time for new features?
• is the Ideas Backlog is meant to contain things that will be implemented when there's time, or just things that might be implemented and will be discussed further?

@presley are you suggesting those (excellent) questions as possible additions to the Help document, or are they things you're still wondering about yourself? I'd prefer for core team members to comment on some of them (instead of me)... however, some of them could actually be good new topics unto themselves.

Both :). I'm still wondering about most of them, which is my anecdotal evidence that there's something to be gained by covering them somewhere. A section on contributing in the Help page seems like a good place to me.

Good questions @presley - basically we've designed a system for an aspirational reality where we have a lot more development capacity to be building new features. So right now, lots of things get suggested and added to the backlog, but don't get actioned. I really hope that shifts soon and we can start implementing a lot of the great ideas. I do think it's really valuable to suggest features, engage with cards in the backlog, etc, because someday we will be able to do more development, and at that point we really want to build the most useful stuff for users!

Regarding "should I revive old discussion or start new ones" - I would say if the old discussion has relevant context, please revive the old one. If it's actually a different topic, start a new one and link back to the other one if it's relevant. This is a judgement call I'm happy for users to make themselves since there's no black and white answer. Often times past discussions have a lot of rich content that's good to include.

should users start a proposals in the Loomio Community? (it seems like generally no, as when people do, they get like 10 votes and then think that because 8 people agreed, something should happen)

If anyone feels that their independent proposal with maybe 1-3% community engagement means that something should happen, they are perfectly free to express that view and see how it goes from there. I don't think of that as a major problem.

However, perhaps it could be made somewhat clearer in How the Loomio Community Works (which is linked in Loomio Community's front page description) that Loomio Community decisions, and (most of) its subgroup decisions, are non-binding with respect to Loomio Cooperative.

Aid begins with:

How do I get started?
1- Start a group to collaborate with people on Loomio
2- Invite people into your group

I would order the sequence as follows 3, 4, 5, 1, 2

In my humble opinion, before being expert in creating a group, you have to be an expert in debates and proposals.

The novice continues with the same problem: the first is access button "Start a group" to create a new group, while still not know what it means

The frustracción can be the source of disappointment and failure of new user

I commented on this same issue in the discussion

"Try It" / Sandbox / Demo - a better experience for first time users wanting to see how Loomio works

Need more information?
Sections:
1- Getting started.
5- Discussion threads.
6- Comments.
7- Proposals.
2- Group configuration.
3- Coordinating your group.
4- Inviting new members.
8- Sub-groups.

I would order the sequence follows 1, 5, 6, 7, 2, 3, 4, 8
You also need to update the content of point 1

Detail convenient to take into account

Accept Invitation
1- Liberty to decide: when it lacks a user account Loomio.
2- Without liberty to decide: when you Loomio user account because it is adhered directly as a group member.

You have to update the image and description, with the option twitter

I propose the following change

Getting Started

The first time you enter Loomio and before creating a user account, we suggest visiting the Explore page, to learn how some existing groups function.

You might join in a few ways. Here's some information about each entry point:
- When you are invited into a Loomio group
- When you want to join an existing Loomio group the Explore page,
- When you want to start a new Loomio group
- Single sign-on

In section received invitation to join Loomio I suggest to add copies of the two models of emails that can be received:
1- join the group
2- adhered to group

Hi @carlosgallogaravan, thanks so much for your feedback. To respond to your first point, unfortunately we can't really reorder the How do I get started? sequence because we currently don't have a sandbox so you need to have a group to start a discussion.

With regards to the other suggested changes, we have a lot of work to do - the docs in their current form are just an interim step. We'll be doing our best to incorporate all use-cases and probably transitioning to another format in the near future. We are extremely grateful for your feedback, and for all the hard work you've done making Loomio accessible. We will definitely be incorporating your feedback into the next iteration if not beforehand.

Hey everyone! We've just deployed an update to the help docs which includes additional sections on contributing to Loomio, this here Loomio Community and ways to keep up with Loomio development. We'll be iterating on these sections, along with everything else.

Awesome; I really love the new sections so far. :) Thanks so much for the update @hannahsalmon .

@hannahsalmon possibly explained poorly or using the google translator

In Loomio how many groups and users exist?

Not all users Loomio created a group, nor are coordinators

The inexperience of the group coordinator, can generate an inefficient and misuse of Loomio

By these comment I posted the above comment:

Getting Started
The first time you enter Loomio and before creating a user account, we suggest visiting the Explore page, to learn how some existing groups function.

@hannahsalmon two months ago, this subject was discussed during another discussion.

@theodoretaptiklis offered for demonstration and my proposal: create the "Beginners - Demonstration" group

https://www.loomio.org/d/rF5sRH9y/try-it-sandbox-demo-a-better-experience-for-first-time-users-wanting-to-see-how-loomio-works

@carlosgallogaravan I liked the idea of a Beginners-Demonstration area. I don't think anyone used the "Create a proposal" option in that old discussion. (It's not too late!)

A good proposal might be something like this:

1. To create a subgroup of Loomio Community called "Beginners-Demonstration"
2. To link that subgroup in the new Help document

sub-group: Beginners
Related Topic in link

It would be useful to add the following text

When inviting new members is exclusive to the coordinators, group members can only invite new members through the invitation made by a coordinator.

On pages 13, 14 and 15 of the manual utilization of Loomio, I prepared in Spanish, I wrote 11 questions that may need to consult the invited person

Seven are already formulated and you can add the following four:

1- What is a discussion?

2- Who is responsible for comments?

3- What to Avoid When Writing a comment?

4- Are filtered or control the written comments?

Error in the following text

click the "More ..." link in the "Members" panel on the left-hand side of your group page.

Is on the right side

click the "More ..." link in the "Members" panel on the right-hand side of your group page.

Hi @carlosgallogaravan, thanks very much for alerting us to the text errors! With regards to your other suggestions, it sounds like there is some overlap between technical help (documentation that shows people how to use Loomio) and cultural help (documentation that supports people collaborate effectively) in what you're describing. We are currently in the process of writing cultural help documentation and figuring out the best ways to expose our learnings around effective collaboration on Loomio, as well as the learnings of others. This is an ongoing project, but we'll definitely have more public content of this nature soon, so please stay tuned for developments :)

Love Loomio very simple to use. One question i have and can't find an answer to, can you set the discussion so that the most recent is at the top not at the bottom, thanks?

@rowenaskinner1 When logged in, a blue line is positioned in the first comment of the discussion that needs to read.

The culture we have suggests the latest down

Hi, under the paragraph headed "Deleting a Discussion" there are three options given.... Edit, Move, Delete. A useful fourth option, very useful, would be "Archive".

Hi @LisaMac , I agree about the "Archive" option. This subject has some history at Loomio, with considerable agreement and support. I know it was not a focus of the core team as they approach the release of Loomio 1.0. Please see this discussion for some historical perspective. Additionally, you can vote for the "close/archive" option on the Loomio Roadmap. :)

I was just looking through the Help documentation and have the following tips for consideration.
1. "When logged in, a blue line is positioned in the first comment of the discussion that needs to read."
This will mean nothing to a user who is colour blind.
2. Statements like:
"Starting a new Loomio group can be done at any time." ... "If you wish to change your group settings you can do so by clicking the “Options” button on the top right-hand corner of the group page, and selecting the “Edit group settings” option."
"Click" is a Mouse user term, and may not mean anything to a Keyboard user. Also, "Left", "Right", and "Top corner" have no meaning to user agents like screen readers.
3. Assistive technology like Pointers and screen readers, requires proper HTML markup is critical for ease of navigation and content context understanding. The Help page is a large page and very tedious to navigate with a keyboard. Heading hierarchy structure is also important; for some reason Heading level 2 is missing.

Hey @davidbest, thanks very much for you review! We appreciate that there's a lot of work to be done to make this document accessible. The second iteration (to accompany the new interface) will address the issues with the current document. I'll be making a few changes to the help docs over the next day or so, and if it's ok with you I'd love to @mention you and get your feedback.

Hannah, glad to help where ever I can.

That is quite annoying when there are loads of comments and you have to scroll down for the most recent. Is there any way the user can alter their screens of is this a programming thingy?

Thanks,

Cheers,

Rowena.

Rowena Skinner

Office Manager

Office Open Mon-Thurs 10-4

The Greens (WA) Inc.

445 Hay St. Perth WA 6000

Ph 08 9221 8333

office@wa.greens.org.au ( office@wa.greens.org.au )

www. wa.greens.org.au

ABN 41 747 355 722

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://i.imgur.com/teg5M2c.png

Hi @rowenaskinner1,

Thanks for your feedback. The functionality you're referring to has been discussed in-depth here in the Loomio Community (if you're interested you can view a discussion here. We're currently in the process of making big improvements to the whole interface, including the discussion page. The new interface will make discussions easier to read, even if they have lots of content.

In the current configuration, if there is more than one page of activity in a discussion, the previous pages will have a link to the comment box at the bottom of the page. Furthermore, if there is activity you have not read then when you land on the discussion page you will arrive at the first unread item. The impetus for configuring the discussion activity this way was to help people follow the natural flow of a discussion, so their contributions to the discussion take into account the things others have said, leading to more productive dialogue.

@davidbest, we've made a couple of small changes to the current help documentation. I would be interested to hear if they improve the current experience at all. We will be doing an overhaul soon. Thank you again for your help.

Hannah, I can't tell what has been changed in the Help. I look forward to the overall. Thanks for your attention to improving the readability of the Help.

Thanks Hannah, look forward to the changes.

Cheers,

Rowena.

Rowena Skinner

Office Manager

Office Open Mon-Thurs 10-4

The Greens (WA) Inc.

445 Hay St. Perth WA 6000

Ph 08 9221 8333

office@wa.greens.org.au ( office@wa.greens.org.au )

www. wa.greens.org.au

ABN 41 747 355 722

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

http://i.imgur.com/teg5M2c.png