AP Letting go of the requirement to use Loomio for decision making

Is the proposal to remove folk that are not part of the Scottish Burners Telegram group from the decision-making process? I along with others don't have time or capacity to keep up with all the telegram chats. If folk want to exclude me from the decision-making process because of that so be it.

Thanks for doing this Fox!

I have a few thoughts:

-I agree Loomio is a bit clunky, and I would much rather something with an app to avoid messing about logging in every time etc.

-I don’t think Telegram is a suitable alternative. Many people don’t have time to wade through group chats to find information, and we risk alienating them.

-I don’t think organic decision making should happen if it affects the community. Organic discussions, definitely! But then these ideas should be presented to the wider Celtic burn community to decide on together. We have sought from the start to avoid decisions being made without consultation of the whole community.

- it seems like maybe we can just use both Telegram and Loomio (or a similar platform with an app?) Telegram for discussion amongst those who are active there, and any ideas which arise which need a decision could be raised as an AP on Loomio (or equivalent)?

being in another huge group chat is not the vibe for me, also tbh i don't think the opinions of everyone matter for decisions they're not really committed to working on. It's just sort of spreading the mental load when we could use a tool to organise in groups that work on all the different flying parts.

If it's not Loomio we could look at other simple project management tools like Notion or Slack.

It could be a part of the celtic burn budget for example to buy a basic membership to these more chill tools that more people know how to use easily.

:)

@Adele Meower Please not Slack. It's almost as bad as MS Teams 😭

What decision are you proposing you will make?

@Sam Lee I dunno, any? The most recent example was - When to meet up for a 'Talking about Celtic Burn 24' meeting? - I used a Telegram poll and, almost unbelievably, I found myself being told-off for not using Loomio to take this simple and straitforward operational decision. I found the experience a bit discouraging.

@Daniel Klein I think Sam meant, "what is the decision we're trying to make with this AP?"

@Burning Hedgie dropping the knee-jerk "Go to Loomio to do what you're trying to doocratically do here right now!" directive that's being thrown around Telegram from our collective's comms patterns. Or, barring that, empowering my community-sensitive-conscience to simply ignore such directives.

@Daniel Klein I was not part of that conversation but two things strike me: 1 - there was already an active AP on specifically the topic you were polling about, and 2 - not all community members are on the telegram. Making a poll is a small decision and I think an AP just for a poll would be overkill, but sharing the poll on the pre-existing, on-going conversation would have been the right thing to do, especially because of point 2. I don't think loomio and telegram are mutually exclusive

@Emily H I was volunteering to facilitate a meeting happening; making a date-finding poll in the first place was a concession to simply selecting the date myself. Sure - not all community members are on the Telegram - an even greater part of the community is either not on Loomio or refuse the faff of actually using it. To expect me to expand the comms-scope (read volunteer more of my time & effort) for such a simple decision is Not On (and has a whiff of ingratitude) - anyone is welcome/encouraged/empowered to amplify/rebroadcast instead of complaining. Thanks