Make Diaspora a Member of the Free Software Support Network

Goob, all proposals are usually from one person so I don't get why this one is worse than the others.

we have these guys with proven experience in crowd sourcing and the legalities of this free software willing and available to do this now :)

and i don't see a risk, i mean what is the worst that could happen?

@maxwellsalzberg , I wanted to respond to the points you made to me earlier.

might I ask what do you feel our goal is with the press push we are planning on Monday? Is it to get more press about Diaspora? Prove to people that it isn’t dead, and the community has endured? That communication has improved? What message are we as a project trying to push out to the world?

You might not know about what we've been discussing and preparing for in the past weeks. You can look for example at the discussion on the Community Anniversary thread for some examples of that. There's an email which has already been sent out to a number of media contacts, and a press release is going to be drafted. Well, was going to be: this latest development has changed things a bit.

We haven't until now been talking about a desperate push for as much press coverage as possible, no. What we've been talking about is using this anniversary as an opportunity to get the right message out to the wider world, that Diaspora as a community-run project is thriving once more. To support this we're giving some stats of number of contributors, number of commits etc., to show that things have been growing over the past year since it became a community-run project.

I don't see that Diaspora needs press attention per se at this point in time. What Diaspora needs is to combat and dispel the wrong information that remains out there and the bad impression that many people, inside and outside the Diaspora community, still have of the project. That is, things such as:

• Diaspora = joindiaspora.com (so many articles still carry this, and at least 75-80% of registrations to Diaspora are still to that one pod as a result)
• Diaspora is run by Diaspora Inc. (whatever that is – there are many theories)
• the project has stalled or run its course
• the project leadership isn't open/can't be trusted

This is the kind of misinformation I still see frequently within the community and spend quite a lot of time and energy trying to counter.

If we make any splash at all, it needs to very clearly state what the actual case is:

• Diaspora is run by the non-profit Diaspora Foundation
• Push diasporafoundation.org as the project website for use in articles
• the project is thriving and has grown and become more active over the past 12 months (with stats)
• Diaspora is now run as a FOSS project in a completely transparent manner

Asking for money at the same time would, I believe, detract from, not add to, this message, and would potentially lead to the current bad impression of the project, that is widely held, being reinforced.

Another thing which has been discussed has been about recruiting new members, and many people have said in these discussions that Diaspora doesn't actually need new members at this moment. It's great if anyone wants to join, of course, and lots do, but it's not something that the project needs at this point in time. What we could do with is more developers. More have been joining all the time over the past 12 months, which has been wonderful to see, but the more the merrier and the faster the code will develop now that decisions about the direction of development are taken in a collaborative and transparent manner. So another aim of any publicity we get is to make the project attractive to potential developers, rather than end users.

To do this we need to restate the core values and aims of the project. Again, asking for money at the same time would, I believe, detract from this.

If your goal is to get the word out to the people that Diaspora is live and well, the best thing you can do is send a strong message, and I can’t image a better one.

The message that sends out is 'Diaspora desperately needs money AGAIN!' I do not consider that a good message to send out at this time, especially because it is not true. I don't subscribe to the 'all publicity is good publicity' school of thought.

You may have run a very successful crowd-funding campaign three years ago, and kudos to you for that, but that doesn't mean you're right about this.

Besides, running a successful crowd-funding campaign brings with it great responsibilities: not least, 'What are you doing with our money?' The honest answer would be 'Oh, nothing really; we're just sitting on it until we think of something to use it for.' It's a governance issue: we need first to propose, discuss and consider ideas for how we could make use of this new structure and any money we raise. Doing this hurriedly without proper consideration of any proposals simply because Maxwell wants a crowd-funding campaign for publicity purposes and has landed this on the community with no notice or warning whatever, rather than because it's something the project needs to do, is not a good situation.

Doing a crowd-funding drive now without having had much contact with the outside world for the past 18 months might well get headlines along the lines 'Diaspora, the project that takes your money and then does nothing.' Publicity like that could really harm the project and undo so much of the great work which has been done by community members working in collaboration towards a common purpose over the past 12 months.

You say that only with a crowd-funding campaign will the announcement get worthwhile headlines, and give two examples. However, if you put the same energy into the announcement and press contacts, without the crowd-funding campaign the headlines might read:

“Diaspora founders send off Diaspora in a big way; Foundation, new leadership, open-source style”

“After a year, Diaspora joins FSSN, goes back to roots to reboot as community project, refreshed core team”

And, as I say, with the fund-raising campaign tied in, the slant might be that the project is in trouble again. You just don't know how the press will react. I may be wrong; you may be wrong. I think that going all out to get press attention for the sake of getting press attention is a dangerous game.

(You may not know my name, but I've been involved since summer 2011, helping out where I can with communication and outreach stuff, but I don't write code, hence why you won't know me. But I've 'put my heart into this project', as you put it, perhaps not as much as a few people at the core have, but still quite a lot. I have a lot invested in this project and its success, and I certainly don't want to see a poor decision, made in haste, harm the project.)

i am actually also having trouble trying to come up with some clear goals for a funding that the community can identify with

the problem is that we have been succeeding without this funding :)

so what clear and necessary funding can we demonstrate?

@goob I think it's a good point to raise at this stage that not one of the tech blogs that we have reached to with the email have replied ;)

So we can either go quiet(ish) with the one year anniversary or celebrate it with big hopes and aims. The choice is yours, Diaspora community.

Oh, have to correct, one tech blog asked us for the number of users and then didn't reply yet.

@jasonrobinson I'm also slightly confused about the FSSN. As far as I know the Software Freedom Conservancy does about the same thing FSSN is supposed to, but they actually have a real web presence. Some of the people (Bradley Kuhn, Karen Sandler) behind the Software Freedom Conservancy have worked at the SFLC and most likely still collaborate with them. Why would Eben have founded an organization that is so overlapping in purpose? I wish the website would provide any real info.

did a little dig, i make no claim of accuracy here:

the presiding law firm for the FSSN is staffed by members of the SFLC but unlike the SFLC it works with for-profit companies

the FSSN is a not-for-profit entity they created for holding assets of companies that do comply to the conditions of the SFLC

FSSN is much like the SFC and perhaps shares some history, but there does not seem to be any overlap in staffing between them any more

Kuhn is listed with the SFC and Sandler is listed with the FSSN

@aj ok, that's at least something. But the FSSN website at the moment does not give the impression of a well staffed project. I mean searching for FSSN you get this loomio discussion within the top ten hits and it gives almost as much or more information about the FSSN as the their website. That probably isn't a good thing in terms of getting publicity from the tech press/blogs for the transfer and anniversary. Maybe I've missed something? Other than my small misgiving I think this is a great idea: there are much better reasons for joining the FSSN that just a press stunt.

As to the crowdfunding, I like the idea of doing it at the same time with the anniversary, but it'd have to be with proper goals for it and hopefully general agreement as to what they should be. Asking money only for the administrative tasks isn't really that appealing. Something that I think could fit a crowdfunding campaing are specific features e.g. integration with new 3rd party web apps - like MediaGoblin.

@torstischulz, ya the website appears to be nothing more than a place holder, and the FSSN a convenient legal container

but i have no doubt that Moglen and his group are uniquely qualified to help diaspora make this transition

and the FSSN appears to be a vehicle intended for this type of situation

I have more than this question: is FSSN based in the US?

What exactly does it mean to: Transfer all Diaspora Inc Diaspora related assets to FSSN (Trademark, hosting, Social media accounts)?

o.k. folks, sorry for the chaos... diaspora is already u.s. based so it doesn't matter... patriot act is fact and has a value for all pods where ever they might be... the best desission would be: leave the states!

@recyclingartist, actually i'm not sure

if i understand correct (and i'm not sure i do) then there will be no Diaspora Inc. there will be a diaspora project which is under the umbrella of the FSSN

they will hold the assets and liabilities with the provision that the project has control of their usage

this provides diaspora with expert legal and fiscal representation as a non-profit free software without us actually having to implement it :)

thank's aj... I completely understand the advantages and attraction wich FSSN has on all the developers and co... for me, as stupid european user is simply the fact: everything that is under umbrella of us firms (and in that case it is completely unimportant for me wheater they are profit or non-profit) is under the us law and in that case diaspora seems not to be the right choice for people who are fighting against spying laws it is ridicoulous in fact! but it is my fault, I had to inform myself better.

ya, we have some major issues in the USA and Canada right now :) it is influencing many aspects of our lives here. hopefully the European community will see us as an example of what NOT to do, he! :)

@recyclingartist , as I understand it this will have no impact on access to user data, which in a distributed system are of course contained on individual pods. You should therefore choose your pod based on where you are happy for your data to be stored.

This is about transferring ownership of everything which belonged to Diaspora Inc, the company set up by the four founders, to the non-profit Diaspora Foundation under the stewardship of the FSSN. This means things such as the ownership of the Diaspora name as a trademark. Also the agreement of ownership under which all contributions to the project are made. It's a means of ensuring that this project remains a Free Software project.

Although FSSN is based in USA, I can't see any means of the NSA (if that's who you're afraid of) getting hold of your data as part of this move. Besides, if anyone's going to fight to the hilt any move to requisition data without the knowledge and agreement of the person who owns those data, I think Eben Moglen would be that person.

I don't know anything about FSSN other than what we've been told by Maxwell here, but I do know a bit about Eben Moglen, and what I know reassures me that he is someone who shares the values of the project and is a 'safe pair of hands', and also I don't believe either Maxwell or Sean would make such a move without being very sure that it was in the best interests of the project, and I'm happy to trust they've taken all necessary steps to make sure that it is a safe transition.

I'd like to ask @Goob , have you thought about making two posts for the two decisions? Or asking the other way round was there are certain intention behind so you put both in one thread?

@goob i think you are right. thanks. i carry off on politics. the distributed nature of diaspora makes it a solution to some of our nations issues. :)

@groovehunter i think it happened at the same time because raising funds has been held back by the other issue being addressed

but this in retrospect should not be the case :) what do you do? :)

I’d like to ask @goob , have you thought about making two posts for the two decisions? Or asking the other way round was there are certain intention behind so you put both in one thread?

I tried to create two proposals/two votes, but it will only let you have one at any one time. There wasn't time to have two votes one after the other, so I did the best thing I could think of. Unfortunately it has been rather forced on us with little time left, and I'm not sure the intention was for there to be a vote at all, but I consider that essential. On reflection I should have asked Maxwell or Sean to start a separate discussion so that there could be a vote on the FSSN here and a separate vote on the other discussion about fund-raising, but I didn't think of that until it was too late. That's what happens when people are forced into taking quick action...

agree. i think there is also a general consensus in the community, let us move forward, and get it done :)

hey @goob or any other who has access to our social media accounts: mind posting a link to this vote from the official Diaspora HQ account if that has not been done?

I think maybe we should accept that we don't have consensus on crowd funding, and that we should move that discussion to another page, and see if we can work out an acceptable proposal for the longer term?

@nickdowson we have before agreed that votes are passed on majority, not total concensus - which would be impossible to achieve in any larger community.

What you propose will be what will happen if 'abstain' wins :)

thx for explaining @goob You were forced into quick action because of... have the crowdfunding started in time of the anniversary or what?

@jasonrobinson I'm afraid I don't have access to social media accounts, just the DHQ account in Diaspora. I'd rather let @seantilleycommunit make such an important 'official' announcement such as this one.

@groovehunter see Maxwell's message that started this discussion - he was planning to start the crowdfunding on Monday, in two days' time. I believe we need some form of community consensus before taking such action, as has been our practice over the past 12 months. This is why the need for a quick vote.

@goob I meant the DHQ account - really only a link here would be enough to tell people there is a vote ongoing. We have nothing to announce yet :)

@seantilleycommunit - could you post something? Would be nice to get a large mandate for this.

@jasonrobinson - actually I don't think this community is so big that it would be difficult to achieve consensus, I've used consensus decision making in far more difficult circumstances.
Actually, I am aware that the agreement was not to use consensus, but I still think it's a desirable thing to aim for - rather than alienating people.

ok, so it is fair to say everyone thinks the FSSN is a good idea. Shall we include it in the announcement tomorrow?

Yeah I think it's safe to say the FSSN is a go (yay!) but the crowd-funding not (nay :'-( )

@maxwellsalzberg do you have an announcement ready? Would you like to put it here somewhere just if someone has some opinions about it?

Maybe off topic but we need a blog at https://diasporafoundation.org/ for announcements

Once the FSSN process gets going we could start a new discussion on a possible crowdfunding campaing in the (near?) future. Opinion and discussion were diverse, but time for planning and agreement too scarce. Besides, then there'd be no need to overload Abstain in the voting.

@maxwellsalzberg the vote finishes tomorrow morning 11am GMT, probably before you get up in the States.

As there's not a single vote yet against transfer to FSSN, it looks safe to include that, and we'll know the result of the vote on crowd-funding in time for any announcements tomorrow.

@maxwellsalzberg Yes, we definitely have consensus in favor of the FSSN transfer.

About the donation, let's simply put the button and say "hey, you can give us money if you want!" and see what happens.