Loomio
Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:23AM

OPEN 2020 - Postponed - Now going online

OS Oli SB Public Seen by 153

How should the online event work!?!? Please add your thoughts...

OS

Oli SB Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:30AM

It is after much deliberation we have taken the tough decision to postpone OPEN 2020 - but fear not: Covid 19 will not stop us collaborating, it just means is we have to get better at working together in a decentralized but coordinated way.

We are planning on organising an online version of the event, on the same days: 11th and 12th of June... and hope that we may be able to cover many of the same subjects... but clearly an online event will not be the same. There are many new considerations... some of which could make it better. For example, it could be more accessible to more people :) - but many of which will make it harder, for example, managing time zones, bandwidth and technology to say the least!

If you have any ideas or experiences from other online webinars / seminars / virtual summits - please share them here and we will try to build on these crowd sourced ideas to create the best online event we can - after all, if we can't make this work, there's not much hope for humanity!

Please share any observations about previous online events: what was good? what was bad? what worked well? what didn't? And anything else that you think could help make OPEN 2020 ONLINE the best virtual conference it can be...!

Thanks
Oli

TC

Titan Cassini Fri 13 Mar 2020 1:15AM

Regarding online events, patterns of global internet usage during the crisis so far suggest that prerecorded video sessions such as keynotes (perhaps from some of the main speakers previously scheduled) could be useful, as well considering when to start remote streaming. Having people chat or send in questions via tools like Slido could make the interactions more focused and be less stressful on bandwidth. Here is some general data around internet usage now (sourced from cloudflare), keeping in mind that an increase in remote working could stress local bandwidth more:

As more people work from home, peak traffic in impacted regions has increased, on average, approximately 10%. In Italy, which has imposed a nationwide quarantine, peak Internet traffic is up 30%. Traffic patterns have also shifted so peak traffic is occurring earlier in the day in impacted regions.

LJ

Laura James Wed 18 Mar 2020 9:23AM

I have a lot of thoughts about online events, which I can write up at some point. There are many different kinds of events and goals for events too, there's no one size fits all - many tools and techniques for different kinds of things. I would say for something like OPEN making sure there's scope for small group conversations as well as big ones, chat (which is archived) for discussion of different sessions, and networking space/time will be important.

At ClimateAction.tech we're building up resources for remote events - the page ( https://discourse.climateaction.tech/t/greener-events-summary-post/27 ) will get a bunch of updates this week.

Laura

M

mike_hales Thu 19 Mar 2020 1:10PM

@Laura James It would be great if you did actually write up some more specific thoughts about online events, in this Open 20xx context, thanks. Maybe a new thread. It would be good to understand what you mean by:

  • networking space/time

  • small group conversations, as distinct from . .

  • big group conversations, and

  • chat (which is archived)?

Looking at the CAT greener events Discourse site (thanks), and the CAT website, I find two responses:

  • The website seems clear, helpful. A manifesto-ish assemblage of material with a single voice - quite 'traditional'.

  • The Discourse group seems something of a pig's breakfast. An utter maze. Multiple styles and languages. Bullet lists, lists of links. No apparent conceptual framing (eg of the lists of links) and no apparent cascade of content (somehow, it doesn't seem to be very wiki-ish, more bulletin-boardish; no moderation I guess).

I sense this experience arises partly from multiple perspectives, multiple contributions (this Loomio group is similar, neither app imposes any constraint - not should it), partly the result of ad hoc bringing across of stuff from another kind of group space (Slack chat), partly simple lack of time to do the necessary conceptualising/organising. I don't mean this as a crit of you or CAT, Laura. Rather, I suspect this reflects the chaos of loosely federated organising in general. Maybe the Discourse group makes sense to somebody following it daily, as it evolves? But not to an incomer.

This present thread in Loomio is now well beyond intelligibility, and that's not a Loomio weakness, it's a chaos of voices and topics.

A lesson? Maybe: tech tools are not a solution-in-a-box? Without the labour input and without a developed focus of attention - and without opening out a meta discussion or two (to determine how the 'content' can be appropriately organised) - distributed organising and distributed resources are not going to magically fall into order bcos some digital format (Slack, Discourse, Loomio, whatever) is overlaid. So, how does this happen? I dunno. Maybe a core group needs to spend quality time in detailed design work, some video conversation, etc? Develop a conceptual frame. Do some heavy editing, regrouping, cross-linking, summarising? Open some new (pinned) threads?

@Oli SB d'you have a group at work on Open 20xx planning? Can you (plural) open a meta thread or two, to distill and reframe what been flowing here? Strikes me, this thread is beyond recovery?

LJ

Laura James Thu 19 Mar 2020 4:53PM

Thanks Mike! I'll see if I can find time to write up thoughts soon. As you note it's not so much about tech as about social dynamics...

The CAT discourse is not actually used as a community forum - it's mostly as individual wiki-style pages (and we are having some minor technical challenges there, as it happens). The real discussion happens in CAT slack, local meetups, etc.

Laura

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 4:55PM

All really useful thoughts Mike - yes tech will not save us... without suitable organisation to ensure collaboration is structured and effective... which requires some governance too... yada yada...

There isn't a dedicated group working on 'OPEN online' event planning - more of a cacophony of various chats and threads... but if anyone here would like to be part of a working group to help organise an effective event please just shout / add your name here? And I will kick off another thread / group / space we can collaborate...

M

mike_hales Thu 19 Mar 2020 6:24PM

OK, I should put some of my time where my mouth is . . so Oli, include me in! Although, I'm 'up to here' - and most people here are, I'm guessing.

DS

Danyl Strype Sun 5 Apr 2020 3:09AM

Hi Laura, please consider replacing Slack with one of the many excellent free code tools for group chat. I have been curating a page exploring some of the options, which is archived here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181208131734/https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/slacking-off/

At minimum, please allow signups on discourse.climateaction.tech that don't depend on having a Slack account.

OF

Olivier Frey Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:35AM

Hello. Sad to read this but I think it is better for everyone to postpone. I was wondering myself if it is a good idea to come to England as we don't know how the situation is going to evolve here in France. Why not make a one day online event and reschedule the whole event in October or November? I think it is hard to be in front of the computer during two days and follow the discussions.

DS

Danyl Strype Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:41AM

Interesting that you've decided not to go ahead with a conference in England in June, when FOSSasia is going ahead in Singapore this month: https://blog.fossasia.org/fossasia-confirms-annual-summit-takes-place-from-march-19-21-devsprints-on-march-22-at-lifelong-learning-institute-in-singapore/

Is the COVID-19 risk higher in the UK than in Singapore? Do you think the pandemic situation is likely to be worse in June than it is now?

G

Graham Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:56AM

I think that we are in a fast moving situation with little clarity. What seems very likely is that the UK Govt will begin imposing tighter restrictions imminently, and we don't yet know what those restrictions will be or how far the Govt will go in terms of locking down movement and gatherings as time goes by. Consequently, alongside any health risk there are financial risks for people who may be planning travel and accommodation for the event, and no doubt there are financial risks for the organiser. In light of that I think it is reasonable to postpone the physical event.

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 18 Mar 2020 12:05PM

Singapore are much better prepared than the UK. They've learnt from the SARs outbreak and have an civil service that's more intertwined with their society with rapid response times in crises. The viral growth rate in Singapore has been much lower as a consequence.

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 25 Mar 2020 4:24AM

After reassuring their participants that FOSSASIA would go on as normal, it ended up being a mostly online conference anyway. Singapore closed their borders the day after the conference finished. Given everything that's unfolded since you made the announcement, it's become crystal clear that you folks made the right call.

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:47AM

Hi,

it seems the best decision. It would be worth using those dates to experiment with new forms of participation without postponing to Autumn. How? I'm not the most suitable person but I will follow the most experienced. I think the organizer can assign slots of one hour to the various proposals - by the way how many are there so far? And each one is a self-managed and recorded webinar. Each proposer can then make a 10-minute summary that goes to the organizer of the overall event. All uploaded on a dedicated site.

Maybe we will move less and less in the future but we will be increasingly connected and not only to communicate but to produce resources for the commons (and not only for this socio-economic form)in this Age of Transition.

Best wishes, Vincenzo Giorgino

SH

Steve Huckle Thu 12 Mar 2020 9:57AM

Corvid-19 or not - I'm not certain people flying to conferences from all over the world is sustainable anymore.

SG

Simon Grant Thu 12 Mar 2020 10:28AM

This seems to me a great opportunity to be really co-creative in how we plan and host the online event. I suggest having some early and deep generative conversations around this. I know a bunch of people with Art of Hosting experience who could, I believe, contribute a lot to this conversation -- probably including some people who are already booked on.

W

Wardy Thu 12 Mar 2020 10:30AM

Oli, sucks that your excellent event can't be F2F. An online event can still be good. I cant go into it all now. But could talk in 12-hours if you are still up and about. If not, will drop some considered thoughts about Open Co-op rolling time zone plans. Be well.

WO

wouter@freeknowledge.eu Thu 12 Mar 2020 10:57AM

I can appreciate this decision, especially as it is really unclear how the coming few months will develop - hard for people to make a travel commitment right now, even if it'd be for June. The statistics show that we're a week or so behind Italy (I'm talking here in Catalonia and Spain). People are starting voluntary confinement here in Catalunya and Spain, telework is highly recommended, schools are about to close in Barcelona. So we'd better practise our online relations. That said, it s***s that we can't meet F2F, which gives so much higher quality relations. How do we manage online beers? ;-P

As Simon says, it's an opportunity to be really co-creative to prepare such online event. One Free Software solution that comes to mind is Big Blue Button: https://bigbluebutton.org/ I haven't got direct personal experience with it, but I understand it is one of the better online video conference and learning environments, and it is around for years now. We should check the specs and best practices. Other options maybe NextCloud Talk. With CommonsCloud.coop we'll be testing that soon. Or solutions for Opensource MOOCS... It depends also on how massive the online gatherings are supposed to be, what team or resources there are to set up and run such stuff.

DS

Danyl Strype Sun 5 Apr 2020 9:18AM

Anyone who wants to test Big Blue Button (with the Greenlight front-end) can try out the NZOSS instance discussed here: https://nzoss.nz/covid-19-response-help-those-working-home

JW

Poll Created Thu 12 Mar 2020 11:18AM

Take this as an opportunity to broaden participation Closed Mon 1 Jun 2020 10:01AM

Maybe this will provide an opportunity for a greater number of proposals/projects to be presented rather than relying on votes to allocate a limited number of slots. After all, it's impossible to know exactly what we're each voting on (given the brevity of the description in each case) and I'd certainly prefer to hear/see what everyone has to say/show (within reason). If using Zoom (for example), presentations (no longer necessarily of a fixed length) could be recorded in advance and made available to view a few days before the start of the "conference". Then perhaps more time could be spent during the conference days focussing on Q&A, facilitated discussion, etc., and going much further towards identifying potential synergy.

This would (I hope) give some visibility to a far greater diversity of projects; to allow participants to prepare questions ahead of the Q&A/discussion sessions; to connect inputs to outputs; to start building (or at least mapping) a more effective, resilient and synergetic network; and to ensure that our individual efforts have a better chance of not going to waste.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 93.8% 15 DS GJ C SG VG M B GA MF JVA TBS RB OBM D JD
Abstain 6.3% 1 R
Disagree 0.0% 0  
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 0  

16 of 16 people have voted (100%)

DS

Danyl Strype
Agree
Thu 12 Mar 2020 11:24AM

Then perhaps more time could be spent during the conference days focussing on Q&A, facilitated discussion, etc., and going much further towards identifying potential synergy.

This! Less chalk'n'talk, more discussion.

JVA

Jordi Vidiella Amposta
Agree
Thu 12 Mar 2020 12:20PM

It would make things super agile and more productive. But it requires more commitment to prepare yourself before the event

M

mike_hales
Agree
Thu 12 Mar 2020 2:58PM

focussing on Q&A, facilitated discussion, etc

C

Cliff
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 10:47AM

works for me

GA

Gary Alexander
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 11:46AM

An excellent idea! Some of us who are planning to attend and are taking part in these discussions already see ourselves as working together, in a fairly loose sense, anyway. The Coronavirus might be giving us the opportunity to leap forwards. It may be that the Zeitgeist is suddenly ready for very local networks of people to set up because they see it is the obviously best way. Platform coop? Community support? New Commons? What tools do we have ready now to support this?

OBM

Ollie Bream McIntosh
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 8:18PM

Like this idea!! Could submissions of pre-recorded content be kept completely open, to allow ANYONE the opportunity to propose delivering a session alongside the pre-arranged/keynote content? Provided each submission came with a decent abstract, then the days immediately before the conference could be spent collectively choosing which recordings would become the subject of the facilitated discussions, and all the others could just stay in a repository that we can browse at will?

R

Rory (FSA)
Abstain
Thu 19 Mar 2020 2:17PM

Agnostic on whether to run the conference. It depends on the benefits/harm to Open Coop itself

E

Ed Thu 12 Mar 2020 11:20AM

Does anyone have experience of or know any of the organisers of the Ellen MacArthur Foundation's "Disruptive Innovation Festival"? It has been successfully running entirely online for several years (https://www.thinkdif.co/) so there must be a lot they have learned.

JVA

Jordi Vidiella Amposta Thu 12 Mar 2020 12:21PM

We could do chapter or mini-events by country or region, so we keep the human interaction with out high risk

JVA

Jordi Vidiella Amposta Thu 12 Mar 2020 12:31PM

First, we should study where attendees are going to be located. Then see what is a timeline that could work for most of us. Let's say that there are people from San Francisco to Melbourne, so make it between 1 and 4 GMT 0 and in several days, until to finalize the content, by this way the ones that are far away from the central time zone don't need to awake so early and others don't need to go to sleep so late.

GA

Gary Alexander Tue 17 Mar 2020 11:49AM

Great suggestion! Looking at who we are, and where. Some kind of directory. Lots to build on then as to what common interests we have, how we can help each other.

M

mike_hales Tue 17 Mar 2020 12:15PM

Sounds good. Would you open a thread on this @Jordi Vidiella Amposta ? To determine the geography of the people who read this Loomio group? And then propose regional clusterings?

JVA

Jordi Vidiella Amposta Thu 26 Mar 2020 1:42AM

Sorry Mike... the world is changing so fast... and we are so at ur startup... just now I'm reviewing my more than 200 emails... I'm not going to be able to spend time on that... sorry...

JVA

Jordi Vidiella Amposta Thu 26 Mar 2020 1:44AM

But it gave me an idea... but no resources to do so... we are rethinking http://opportumeety.com/ to offer daily connection with like-minded around SDG.

But we could do something like that I have proposed too

MF

Poll Created Tue 17 Mar 2020 10:30AM

Regular Webinars Closed Fri 20 Mar 2020 10:03AM

Outcome
by Mary Fee Fri 20 Mar 2020 4:44PM

The poll was three in favour and four against. However, an analysis of the comments reveals a different picture. Only Nathan, was against, preferring a straight 2-day conference. Rory, Ollie and Guy's comments, amount to BOTH/AND. Diana Finch doesn't actually say anything about the idea of regular webinars - she complains about 'these long written discussions" and doesn't want to take two days out either, so I call that a YES. Finally Mike and John say YES to developing to Regular Webinar idea further. Over to you guys.

I've got another idea, which is that to give maximum attention to each presentation, instead of an intensive two-day conference where we have to choose between competing sessions, whether in June or at a later date, which is done-and-dusted and soon forgotten, we have a series of regular webinars each featuring one presentation or theme (if more than one presentation is relevant), so that we can give maximum attention to each topic and build momentum towards a consensus of ideas. If it's one to two hours, allowing time for responses, then it should be possible to choose a time when most people are awake whatever time zone they are in. If the sessions can be recorded it should be possible to re-appraise them periodically as our ideas develop.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 42.9% 3 JW M DF
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 57.1% 4 GJ R NBC OBM
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 174 DS EM AG JD LHB WO DDB PA JE JL UB C G MSC CCC ML WH PB JG LM

7 of 181 people have voted (3%)

NBC

Nathan Brown (Co-op Culture)
Disagree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 10:43AM

Nice idea but impractical. Taking 2 specific days out of the diary is easy to manage. Having lots of occasions where the diary is blocked makes it difficult for those of us who have to arrange client facing work with groups who have varying availability (online for time being of course!)

DF

Diana Finch
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 10:49AM

Frankly taking two days out is difficult, and the ideas around doing lots of pre-work watching lots of presentations in the run up to two days of discussion is tricky. Time is tight, and I have the day job to do! I also find it really difficult to engage in these long written discussions. It just takes too long - especially as I'm a slow reader. The idea of yet more of this is difficult. I'm afraid I had put this whole Loomio thing on the back burner for a week or two now...

M

mike_hales
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 12:17PM

Although some folks have some difficulties with this, sounds basically good to me @Mary Fee . Stick with it, and hopefully some version of this idea can get acceptance?

JW

John Waters
Agree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 12:53PM

I agree broadly (hence the click) but share the concerns raised by others around time commitments. These things always turn out to be more challenging in practice. For me, anyway. I'd like to see this proposal discussed more fully to see whether a modified, and perhaps less ambitious, variant might turned out to be more practicable. (The current COVID-19 situation is increasing just about everybody's time constraints, and I imagine that will be very much the case for most people here.)

R

Rory (FSA)
Disagree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 3:01PM

Agree the idea of webinars, but not as a substitute for the Open Coops conference.

OBM

Ollie Bream McIntosh
Disagree
Tue 17 Mar 2020 8:21PM

I think more diffuse discussions might actually be more likely to peter out, whereas the intensity of two days of the conference (which I imagine people have already accounted for in terms of their own scheduling) lends itself more to more energy synergy. No reason webinars can't be added to extend the conversation, but not to replace it imo

GJ

Guy James
Disagree
Wed 18 Mar 2020 10:30AM

I disagree as a replacement for the Open coop conference, but as an addition for those who feel moved to participate, I would agree.

MF

Mary Fee Tue 17 Mar 2020 10:46AM

Well, it depends what you mean by "lots of". For example, could you cope with monthly?

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Tue 17 Mar 2020 11:00AM

That's what we need. No idea about its practicality, but we should discuss about the sense of mass meeting as a quick display of ideas and projects with limited discussion and depth. Does meeting serve also to create, reinforce (or break) networks? The Covid-19 is an opportunity to reflect on it.

JW

John Waters Tue 17 Mar 2020 12:58PM

@Oli SB Could you extend the voting window on Mary's proposal? The cut-off point of 20th March is to soon.

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:27AM

I'm not sure date changing is required ... I'm always a bit bemused by "votes" on Loomio in groups without any clear rules for how votes should work, what is quorum etc?... but I've been advised not to worry about it and assume a vote is just a way of 'sense checking' where a group is at... and this seems to have been a useful sense check! ;)

G

Graham Wed 18 Mar 2020 10:11AM

A thought, in the current situation - where many people will be unclear what the future holds, and the need for mutual aid is high. Might it be the case that the 'Open 20xx' community (I've no idea how many are here or on @Oli SB 's mailing list) has some solutions and tools within it that can be of value in the here and now? Could we as a community of interest help to bring some of those tools and solutions forward? Should we be looking at a weekly Zoom session, not as a replacement for a conference, but as a new move focussed solely on a response to the covid-19 pandemic?

E

Ed Wed 18 Mar 2020 10:25AM

Interesting suggestion! In practice could a good start simply be adding a thread on this platform for those looking for short-term assistance from the community to post requests?

M

mike_hales Wed 18 Mar 2020 11:58AM

Nice one Graham. Following the suggestion of @Ed perhaps open a thread in this group, to gather and discuss this kind of intelligence (eg the stuff that @Laura James recently posted)? And to convene a weekly chat (in Zoom etc)? @Oli SB might you take this up for Open 20xx? Or @Graham as an individual if you feel up to being the convenor? What d'you both reckon?

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:43AM

Thanks everyone for all your ideas and suggestions. I have been reviewing the best tools for an online event and there does not seem to be any consensus yet.... I am evolving an idea, in conjunction with various other event organizers inc @Jakub Lanc whereby we stick to the 11th and 12th of June to come together and define our areas of specific interest... (although probably not as one big group call, as that would be painful and hardly anyone would get to speak) and split into small groups to work on developing possible plans for action in various work areas.
Then we could report back to the wider group... and set individual group agendas for when / where to meet again, so that there does end up being a rolling monthly (ish) call / presentation from each working group - and people can join the ones that interest them...

This is all work in progress... the real question is whether we can join forces with other groups and networks to establish useful 'chat groups' and 'working groups' (see Making groups work ) - if there is interest in collaboration? If the main interest is more in sharing news and discussion that probably requires a different type of event.

And if we do try to collaborate by working together, wouldn't it be nice to use some genuinely open source tools - that WE host ourselves - so we can start building a new economy in which WE own the "means of collaboration"!?

More soon...
Oli

M

mike_hales Thu 19 Mar 2020 10:53AM

A common cooperatively owned and operated platform of tools would be great. The Disroot platform has something like this intention, though its not a coop in the way that social.coop/Mastodon means to be, for example, and seems to have an incomplete toolset?

Regarding what tools to include in a common platform, see for example the suite of tools adopted by Guerrilla Translation. It's described in Book Five of the GT Handbooks

https://wiki.guerrillamediacollective.org/index.php/The_Guerrilla_Translation_Handbooks
In terms of Oli’s three-way classification in Making groups work ( https://open.coop/2020/02/20/making-groups-work/?utm_source=discussion_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=new_comment ) this toolset is more than a Working group set but less than a Trading group. GT is currently developing custom tools for some of the Trading functions (because they have a very specific, sophisticated model of value flows - DisCO).

genuinely open source tools - that WE host ourselves

Absolutely! The GT set is less than perfect in this regard - it includes Google docs and Trello for example. But there are opensource alternatives - NextCloud and Wecan for example.

Oli’s three-way model of groups doesn’t fit all, I think. ’Trading’ isn't a good fit with organisations that are doing more than ‘Working’ but are not operating in markets - for example, community education and organising projects? And Loomio, for example, is more than ‘Chat’ but less than Oli’s ‘Working’. Maybe the classification that GT use might be hybridised with Oli’s?

OBM

Ollie Bream McIntosh Fri 27 Mar 2020 6:36PM

So, to clarify - 11th and 12th is not about content sessions, but solely about collaboration, with content being serialised in weekly format before and after these dates? Unsure as to which you mean sorry.

Re: whether we can join forces with other groups and networks to establish useful 'chat groups' and 'working groups' - once we have a sense of what the various themes (do we yet?), I'm happy to help track down those established organisations who could be 'co-hosting' forums, lending their expertise etc

OS

Oli SB Sat 28 Mar 2020 10:49AM

"11th and 12th is not about content sessions, but solely about collaboration, with content being serialised in weekly format before and after these dates" - is roughly correct... i think ... but ideas are still evolving... TBC, Oli

OS

Poll Created Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:49AM

What's your main interest in an online OPEN event? Closed Tue 31 Mar 2020 8:05AM

Outcome
by Oli SB Wed 27 May 2020 1:51PM

As per the survey OPEN 2020 Reinvented (for online) will aim to facilitate 'learning from others' and help attendees find and start 'ongoing working groups' :)

If you have a proposal for a session please add it here https://www.loomio.org/d/sKPCrZqM/open-2020-fringe-propose-a-session

Results

Results Option Points Mean Voters
Learning frorm others 70 2.7 26
Joining an ongoing workking group to help buiild a specific aspect of the new econnomy 60 2.3 26
Hearing updates from other projects 52 2.0 26
Being inspired by guest speakers 39 1.5 26
Joining an ongoing chat group on a specific aspect of the new economy 39 1.5 26
Finding likeminded people to chat to 37 1.4 26
Understanding mmutual credit 25 1.0 26
Finding other businesses to trade with - in the new economy 24 0.9 26
Undecided 0 0 159

26 of 185 people have voted (14%)

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:53AM

0 - Understanding mmutual credit
0 - Finding other businesses to trade with - in the new economy
0 - Joining an ongoing workking group to help buiild a specific aspect of the new econnomy
0 - Joining an ongoing chat group on a specific aspect of the new economy
0 - Being inspired by guest speakers
0 - Finding likeminded people to chat to
0 - Hearing updates from other projects
0 - Learning frorm others

understanding what are the values we could practice in the new economy and how

NBC

Nathan Brown (Co-op Culture) Thu 26 Mar 2020 7:34AM

4 - Learning frorm others
3 - Hearing updates from other projects
2 - Finding other businesses to trade with - in the new economy
1 - Being inspired by guest speakers
1 - Joining an ongoing workking group to help buiild a specific aspect of the new econnomy
0 - Finding likeminded people to chat to
0 - Understanding mmutual credit
0 - Joining an ongoing chat group on a specific aspect of the new economy

I am involved in so many online co-op focused discussion groups and real life co-ops that I wouldn't have time/head space for ongoing chat. I really value the opportunity to immerse myself for a couple of days.

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Sun 29 Mar 2020 4:54AM

4 - Understanding mmutual credit
4 - Hearing updates from other projects
4 - Learning frorm others
3 - Joining an ongoing workking group to help buiild a specific aspect of the new econnomy
0 - Joining an ongoing chat group on a specific aspect of the new economy
0 - Being inspired by guest speakers
0 - Finding likeminded people to chat to
0 - Finding other businesses to trade with - in the new economy

understanding what are the values we could practice in the new economy and how

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:54AM

Jeez - this poll thing really doesn't seem to work, no?? it recorded all the first 3 people's answers as zeros... !?!?!

NBC

Nathan Brown (Co-op Culture) Thu 26 Mar 2020 7:31AM

Could this be because there have been several votes in succession rather than separate threads for each vote?

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:54AM

Hi Oliver, I voted but it seems I didn't. BTW I added an entry

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:55AM

yeah - I think Loomio has an issue here - HELP! @Loomio Helper Bot

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 9:56AM

Weird - because @John Grant votes seem to have worked - what did you do that we didn't John?? Which browser were you using ??

JG

John Grant Thu 19 Mar 2020 10:00AM

@Oli SB I clicked the 'change vote' link, the [change vote] button then moved the sliders. Looks like Loomio has recorded two votes from me though?

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 10:05AM

even more weird... I did the same and it did seem to effect the vote result but I don't see any numbers next to my name above... I've asked Loomio for help / advice - sorry about this - will run another vote if this turns out not to work - but hey, at least we're learning about how to collaborate and make decisions together online :)

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 12:00PM

ok - it does seem that votes are being recorded so please don't be put off voting - the more input we can gather the better we can make the online event ;)

R

Rory (FSA) Thu 19 Mar 2020 2:11PM

Oli - the FairShares Institute at Sheffield Business can offer 9 online chat rooms (1 x 50, 8 x 12 people) and a staff room (up to 4 people) to support running the conference online.

You can access meeting rooms via its Loomio Group at:

https://fsi.loomio.org

The FairShares Association can offer two break out rooms too (up to 12 people each). They can be accessed at:

https://fairshares.loomio.org

No charge.

OS

Oli SB Thu 19 Mar 2020 2:43PM

super useful - thanks

MF

Mary Fee Thu 19 Mar 2020 3:46PM

Is this one also relevant?
https://www.thealternative.org.uk

DS

Danyl Strype Sun 5 Apr 2020 9:37AM

This is a kind offer @Rory (FSA) . FYI these conference rooms are powered by Whereby.com, which appears to be a proprietary service, similar to Zoom. Unlike someone can point me at the source code of the software they use?

OS

Oli SB Fri 20 Mar 2020 10:26AM

I got a reply from Loomio:
===========
Hi, thanks for reporting this.

I've just deployed a bug fix for voting so that this should not happen again. Sorry for the trouble and thanks for reporting the issue.

Robert Guthrie

Loomio Support -
============
So, I'm pretty sure the vote above is working ok now - and there is a useful pattern emerging that will help us plan the event :) - thanks to everyone that has voted - if you haven't had your say please do!

And big thanks to Rob from Loomio for being awesome ;)

MF

Mary Fee Fri 20 Mar 2020 3:49PM

Hi Oli (and all)
I don't know whether this goes just to you or the group: I got a message to say that the proposal to have regular webinars instead of a postponed physical conference has closed. There was a button saying "SHARE OUTCOME but when I clicked on that it said "you do not have permission to do this". Only seven people out of ?several dozen? participants voted on this, and three were in favour
whilst four were against, but in each case the YES/NO vote was qualified in some way, some of them saying BOTH/AND. So I don't think the answer is clear.

Several other regular meetings I attend have switched to webinar mode, which results in a shared experience within a limited space of time, which seems to me to be better than this ongoing drip drip "discussion about a discussion" where we never seem to go near the subject matter which is supposed to be our common concern. The way this is going I wouldn't recommend it to any of my contacts, and I'm now figuring out how to make better progress with various projects using non-tactile methods. I will try to respond to your own poll.
Mary

JW

John Waters Sun 22 Mar 2020 5:53PM

Hi Mary - this is why (on 17th March) is sent the following message: "@Oli SB Could you extend the voting window on Mary's proposal? The cut-off point of 20th March is to soon." When I posted my suggestion, I remember to change the cut-off date (to 1st June, the same as the session proposals) and I believe everyone should be given the same voting opportunities.

MF

Mary Fee Mon 23 Mar 2020 10:37AM

Hi John
Thanks for your reply. So If I had known, I could have extended
the cut-off date when I set up the proposal? Duh! It looks like
Oli replied saying he didn't think extending the date was necessary.
So are we a peer-group or is someone in charge?
Yours, confused...
Mary

OS

Oli SB Mon 23 Mar 2020 9:54PM

no need to extend... or worry it closed already. I often think of votes in Loomio as "deciding" things... and constantly have to remind myself that, especially in groups like this with no formal decision making practices, votes are really just a way to gauge the mood in the room. That's why the Loomio crew designed it to work like it does... and this was a useful vote.

There is definitely some interest in regular online meetings... and the poll below shows that most people are interested in "learning from others" and "joining working groups" - both of which could (and probably should!) be rolling, regular events...

We're all working this out as we go so feel free to chip in more ideas or to try other votes..

There are no rules here - apart from being open and cooperative ;)

OS

Oli SB Mon 23 Mar 2020 10:02PM

no one is "in charge" here - it is a community of like minded folks trying (I hope) to work out how to work together to build a collaborative economy...

The purpose of The Open Co-op, which drives everything we do is to: build a world-wide community of individuals and organisations committed to the creation of a collaborative, sustainable economy.

We wrote that shared purpose collaboratively over 2 days in 2004, and it has guided what we have done ever since... (the word "sustainable" has been polluted a bit since then but hopefully you get the idea!)

I see this group as the seeds (possibly the "spouts" - although nobody likes to be called a "sprout"!) of that purpose ...

A

Amal Mon 23 Mar 2020 4:31AM

Are you still open for new session suggestions? I would like to propose one on "virtual regulatory commons"! In case this topic has been proposed, I would appreciate a comment on that. Thx

OS

Oli SB Mon 23 Mar 2020 10:03PM

sure - feel free to propose sessions in the other thread - the jury is still out on how the event will pan out... but don't let that stop you sharing ideas - the more we do, the stronger we become.

BS

Billy Smith Tue 26 May 2020 3:56PM

Which thread is the one to propose sessions?

OS

Oli SB Wed 27 May 2020 9:54AM

If you would like to propose a session for the OPEN 2020 online fringe - please add it to this thread https://www.loomio.org/d/sKPCrZqM/open-2020-fringe-propose-a-session ;)

BS

Billy Smith Thu 28 May 2020 3:47PM

Thank you. :D

That was the thread i was looking for, but couldn't find.

My Google-Fu sucks sometimes... :D

NBC

Nathan Brown (Co-op Culture) Mon 23 Mar 2020 9:31AM

Where is the right space for me to react to the conversion of a majority NO to a majority YES by @Mary Fee ? If the proposal was for reglar webinars as well as hold the 2 day event I would have said Yes - of course we should encourage people to hold webinars. But the proposal was clearly "instead of an intensive two-day conference". Instead of, not as well as. So I find this sleight of hand with the votes alarming. I guess it is not binding so the 2 day event will go ahead thankfully.

OS

Oli SB Mon 23 Mar 2020 10:06PM

as above - no vote here is binding in any way - think of a vote here as a way to test the mood in the room. feel free to kick of any other votes, to start new threads.... and to generally explore all other ideas about how we can build commons together.

MF

Mary Fee Mon 23 Mar 2020 10:28AM

Alarming? Oh dear!

Item removed

GA

Gary Alexander Tue 7 Apr 2020 10:05AM

What I would like to see, as the basis for more technical discussions, is a practical description of the society we want: basic organisational principles, like based upon trust and mutual support, people knowing each other in their communities, good mechanisms for improving communication and handling conflict constructively, how to arrange effective synergy (like local production of food, local transport, etc.), ways to build effective multi-level commons.

JD

Jennifer Damashek Tue 7 Apr 2020 3:24PM

Gary, I’m wondering if you may have heard of Holistic Management. It was developed by Allan Savory, working with many others in agriculture. However, he has been saying for a very long time that it needs to be practiced anywhere humans are attempting to manage complexity. I agree with him.

One of the first steps in the process is everyone involved in the activity developing and agreeing upon a holistic context, which becomes the reason for all the decisions and actions carried out by the group. The holistic context answers the question “How do we want our lives to be?” Once that description of the way we want our lives to be is answered, the next question to answer is “How do we need to behave for our lives to be this way?” The last question is “How does our environment need to be so that our lives will be this way far into the future?”

Farmers, ranchers, small rural communities in Africa and land managers have been practicing Holistic Management for decades and are some of the pioneers in regenerative agriculture. I believe we need to use this process in all complex human activities if we are going to create a regenerative world. Humans naturally approach problems and goals with a logical, step-by-step, reductionist perspective. This gets us into all kinds of trouble, because negative unintended consequences are assured when we don’t systematically check our actions and decisions against our holistic context (the way we want our lives to be).

I would be so excited if people working on this Open 2020 could come together and agree on a Holistic Context. Here is a generic holistic context (one that distills the basics that pretty much all people can agree to). A real holistic context is one that people create themselves and agree to. But this will give you an idea of what a holistic context is. Holistic Management is described more fully in Allan Savory’s new book.

 

We want stable families living peaceful lives in prosperity and physical security while free to pursue our own spiritual or religious beliefs. We want abundant nutritious food and clean water. We want good education, health and balanced lives with time for friends, family and leisure for cultural and other pursuits. We want all of this to be ensured for many generations to come based on a foundation of ethical and humane behavior towards all life, regenerating soil and biologically diverse communities on earth’s lands and in her rivers, lakes and oceans.

 

Once a holistic context is agreed upon, individuals and groups can begin to evaluate practices and behaviors in terms of whether they are in alignment with it or not. There are seven specific questions used to check behaviors and decisions. But intuitively a many of us are already doing this. It’s why we want to use technology that is alignment with a different world rather than the one we have.

I think teaching people this different way of managing our lives and group endeavors will help people think about all aspects of their lives in a different way. They could come to their own conclusions about whether using google, facebook, any corporate technology, for example, is really in alignment with how they want their lives to be.