Infrastructure and Status of the Experiment
Dan Connolly
Public
Seen by 353
Some of the discussion here is really great, but everyone should keep in mind that this is an experiment and I'm not sure whether it'll be cost-effective to migrate the content from here to the next platform.
Poll Created Tue 13 Mar 2018 4:33PM
RChain should self-host a loomio instance Closed Tue 20 Mar 2018 4:02PM
Jeremy and Ian and I were talking last night and we're leaning in this direction; for one thing, it opens up the possibility of authenticating coop members via OAuth integration with discord.
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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Agree | 87.5% | 7 |
D
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| Abstain | 12.5% | 1 |
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| Disagree | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Block | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 11 |
VRB
JG
A
Y
IK
KM
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8 of 19 people have voted (42%)
Patrick M Maguire
Tue 13 Mar 2018 4:56PM
IF we determine that loomio gives us everything we need for governance, then I totally think we should self host. and then also we should invite some of the co-founders to sit on the "systems committee" that cathy and ian(h3-uni) are driving
kitblake
Wed 14 Mar 2018 6:12AM
Btw, Loomio is also a coop (https://loomio.coop/) and they've been at it for awhile. When I use their software it feels 'fully formed', meaning it's been thought thru, put thru its paces, and harbors a wealth of invisible decision making. Go for it.
Dan Connolly
Fri 16 Mar 2018 3:11AM
self-hosting looks like it might be more of a pain than it's worth; I made another proposal to use their hosted service but under X.rchain.coop
Patrick M Maguire Tue 13 Mar 2018 4:37PM
i actually had a semi biz dev related meeting with two members of enspiral and loomio yesterday and amongst other things they want to connect us with some of the co-founders to consult on this exactly.
Poll Created Wed 14 Mar 2018 11:08PM
Who wants to help administer this loomio instance? Closed Sat 17 Mar 2018 11:01PM
I just wanted to kick the tires, but some folks are starting to contribute material that shouldn't get thrown away even when we transfer to a new platform. I need other folks to share the burden of migrating these contributions. (I just appointed Jim W. as admin.)
Is there a way to export the data from this instance? I'm not even sure I can justify the time to look it up, given my other obligations.
Results
| Results | Option | Voters | |||
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Yes | 4 |
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No | 1 | D | ||
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Undecided | 14 |
VRB
JG
A
Y
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5 of 19 people have voted (26%)
danny
Wed 14 Mar 2018 11:24PM
To answer your question about data export: it looks like the data export feature costs $39/mo w/ a ‘Gold’ subscription. While we kick Loomio’s tires, we should either subscribe or pull it from Git and host an instance we control.
Patrick M Maguire
Thu 15 Mar 2018 3:08PM
I can hop on as one of the admins. Im also talking with some of the co-founders who have a consultancy company thehumm.org to maybe do a few sessions with us and Ian from H3 uni to map everything
kitblake
Fri 16 Mar 2018 2:39PM
Don't think anybody will be upset if data isn't carried over. The instance is named "Experiment".
I'll take on whatever admin tasks that can be performed in the UI.
Poll Created Fri 16 Mar 2018 3:09AM
RChain should outsource hosting but use X.rchain.coop Closed Fri 23 Mar 2018 3:02AM
Self-hosting looks like a bit of a pain. For $29/month, it looks like 50 of us casen use at least rchain.loomio.org, if not coordinate.rchain.coop or the like. For up to 1000 of us, it's $99/month.
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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Agree | 66.7% | 2 |
D
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| Abstain | 33.3% | 1 |
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| Disagree | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Block | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 16 |
VRB
JG
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Y
IK
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3 of 19 people have voted (15%)
kitblake
Fri 16 Mar 2018 10:49AM
To KISS we could outsource now and get it running/integrated. Then later, when we need more than 50, we reconsider. During that time we can negotiate too, afaik we know people at Loomio. +1 coordinate.rchain.coop
Jim Whitescarver Wed 21 Mar 2018 3:43PM
OAuth integration may require that we run loomio ourselves. https://github.com/loomio/loomio-deploy is fairly simple but oauth authentication is not mentioned.
Jim Whitescarver Wed 21 Mar 2018 3:47PM
I missed the check poll but am willing to help administer loomio.
Jim Whitescarver Wed 21 Mar 2018 3:55PM
The easiest path is to forget oauth an just send invite links members only. We just create a closed group on loomio.org. This has the advantage that it consolidates with other loomies you may be in on loomio.org.
Dan Connolly Thu 22 Mar 2018 7:19PM
This sounds interesting, but how do we do it? How do we send invite links to members only?
Dan Connolly Thu 22 Mar 2018 7:19PM
Also... as to closed group: I'm all for "only members can write" but firmly against "only members can read." If I can't link to our loomio discussions from elsewhere in the web, search for it with Google, etc., it's much less valuable to me.
Jim Whitescarver Wed 21 Mar 2018 5:49PM
Ouch. Loomio gets expensive as we grow if they run it. So we may have to run it ourselves. $149/mo for up 1000 members then we move to our own loomio + $2/user/mo
Dan Connolly Thu 22 Mar 2018 7:22PM
Note the non-profit coupons; e.g. $99/mo rather than $149/mo.
Dan Connolly Thu 22 Mar 2018 7:24PM
And $149 is about one hour of an engineer's time. I think it would take 20 hours or so to get going on self-hosting, so it would take a couple years to break even.
Barry Thu 22 Mar 2018 7:23PM
If membership is open, with the only requirement being a $20 fee, what is the point of read access being restricted to members? Even if $20 isn't negligible to every person in the world, I would guess that: for all things you wouldn't want shared for some reason, there exists somebody with $20 to spend on accessing it and sharing it elsewhere.
Barry Cynamon | 314-322-0853
kitblake Sun 25 Mar 2018 5:31PM
@jimwhitescarver @danconnolly Besides the non-profit coupons, I bet we'll be able to negotiate a sister-cooperative price.
Dan Connolly Thu 24 May 2018 2:24AM
Given that a couple uses of this loomio group were noted in the weekly debrief, I suppose this is no longer an experiment.
Poll Created Thu 24 May 2018 2:51AM
Time to pay for gold features, e.g. subgroups Closed Fri 25 May 2018 5:01PM
Given that this loomio group has bubbled up to the weekly debrief a couple times, it's no longer an experiment. It's probably worth $99/month for a (non-profit) Gold subscription to unlock the rest of the features.
Depending on support for this proposal here, I offer to take it to the RChain Executive committee for funding.
Feedback before the committee meeting this Friday May 25 would be ideal, but perhaps I'll extend the duration of the poll.
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
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Agree | 0% | 0 | |
| Abstain | 0% | 0 | ||
| Disagree | 0% | 0 | ||
| Block | 0% | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 32 |
VRB
JG
A
Y
IK
KM
D
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0 of 32 people have voted (0%)
Patrick M Maguire · Tue 13 Mar 2018 4:36PM
loomio has recently introduced private instance and integration features
so we could do our own private instance of loomio in the member.rchain.coop website