Loomio

Building interactive websites in a post-framework web

Danyl StrypeDanyl Strype Wed 4 Mar 2026 10:44PMPublicSeen by 103

I recently stumbled across Daz's guide to building websites using HDA (Hypermedia-Driven Architecture), as an replacement for heavy and regularly obsoleted JavaScript frameworks like React. The finer details of his code examples go over my head, but what I think I understand from his description of the architecture, and the reasoning behind it, seems groundbreaking.

The examples in Daz's guide are based around using HTMX. A comment on SH mentioned DataStar, which is maybe an alternative to HTMX? Certainly seems to have similar goals from what I read on their homepage.

From what I read in Daz's guide, it seems like adopting this kind of approach to interactive web interfaces like Loomio, and fediverse web apps, could be a game-changer. Massively reducing the complexity of feature development and maintenance, and avoiding the cycle of having to massively refactor every time the JS framework in use becomes obsolete.

Thoughts?

Item removed

Arnold Schrijver

Arnold SchrijverMon 6 Apr 2026 11:17AM

OAE proposal from a SX perspective

Loomio is a cooperative that focuses its business on serving the commons to stimulate cooperation, which is the area of my applied research (on hobby track, not earning an income yet) on Social experience design (SX). SX is emergent evolutionary design that takes grassroots social dynamics into account on the intersection of sustainable FOSS, social web, and the commons that cocreates and must evolve and sustain both of these. I was just informing @wouterfreeknowledge.eu on the holistic focus of SX, combined with its utterly pragmatic approach. A SX solution exists when you can write it on a sticky note, from where it evolves. SX provides formula's, recipes, and missing ingredients for organizing cocreation at scale. The goal is to deliver "commons based" solutions, i.e. where people are in control of open technologies. SX 'adds something extra' to all the things we already do, in terms of how we can organize and govern a commons collectively.

It is interesting to me to mull this proposal against my SX elaboration work. This is my intrinsic motivator for this post. Otherwise purely informational along OAE's purpose to share from personal experiences.

An SX process starts by asking: Who are Stakeholders? What are their Needs? What Solutions cover these (starts with sticky notes)? This is then input to a breakdown structure that maps to the FSDL: Free software development lifecycle or Fediverse solution delivery lifecycle, depending on context. One of the objectives is clear expectation management at any one time. By default in a commons there are zero expectations, and no commitments or obligations. Commitments are only made with full mutual understanding and agreement.

@Danyl Strype's proposal would result in a SOSS initiative - a concept that extends FOSS with a focus on sustainability and addressing uncomfortable questions - that delivers, evolves, and sustains the proposed solution. SOSS applies hedonic peer production which involves seeking the intrinsic motivations that encourage people to engage in collaborative arrangements and cocreate together. Proactive participation is key, and any Participant is a Stakeholder, which has their own Needs wrt the SOSS initiative and its evolving Solutions.

It may be interesting to do this SX exercise with the proposal as input, and start to elaborate further. Social coding forum / note-taking tool can facilitate elaboration. Note that all the new terminology around SX above relate to my opinionated design of an innovative solution development method, that is fit for the Commons. But Social experience design itself is universal. A complete new field of IT that is open to anyone to explore their own way. It involves bridging the huge gap between what technology delivers and what society needs.

Some SX musings on the proposal..


Stakeholders:

  • OAE members

  • FOSS / open app developers

  • Loomio

  • People in collaborative commons

  • Broader public

Needs:

  • (expressed) Paradigm shift to web technologies that bring simplicity and productivity.

  • (implied) Paradigm shifts are possible that reduce dependence on corporate Web 2.0

  • (assumed/observed?) Relieve Loomio from unproductive work to focus on core business.

  • (expressed) Cocreate a new stack for Loomio's product portfolio, and other Participants.

  • (expressed) Eval web technology innovations that may enable important paradigm shifts.

  • (implied) Make a commitment in time and possibly money to be part of a FOSS project.

Further elaboration is needed, and a list of Opportunities might be maintained.

Questions:

  • What does OAE want to be? How does it relate to Loomio? Is OAE on paid subscription?

  • Besides tech survey, mastering new tech, what are concrete Needs wrt Loomio platform?

  • What are the Benefits to each of the Stakeholders that encourage proactive participation?

Ideas:

  • Social coding commons has a community collective Guild Alpha (dormant) that..

    • Consisted of FOSS enthusiasts that would vote which project to work on for a time.

    • For selected projects would find most interesting features to build, and work on that.

    • Delivers results and moves to the next project. Made good contributions to Bookwyrm.

    • Became inactive in typical FOSS fashion, wasn't based on SX, not sustainability-first.

    • Can be easily revived, ready to go, follow SX. Might take on OAE plans for the future.

  • Social coding commons has member collectives for FOSS / social impact initiatives.

    • That allow projects, communities, institutions, business to collab on shared goals.

    • That may have a dedicated collective for further OAE ambitions if there's interest.

    • The collective becomes part of a commons based cocreation & affiliation network.

Arnold Schrijver

Arnold SchrijverMon 6 Apr 2026 12:55PM

Join the Social experience design channel to chat about this subject in more detail.

Danyl Strype

Danyl StrypeTue 7 Apr 2026 3:47AM

I'd be glad to see clarification of what it might mean for "a subgroup of OAE members" to be " forced to experiment

I only just spotted this, which was a typo; the intended word was "formed", not "forced" (again, the cludgy mobile interface of Loomio let me down here). Not only would forcing people to volunteer for a software dev experiment be totally counter to my most fundamental values, I can't imagine any way members of OAE could be forced to do anything 😆

Since this is a sense check, not a decision that needs to be made with any urgency, I've pushed the closing date out another week, and may do so again.

Lynn Foster

Lynn FosterMon 13 Apr 2026 8:32PM

Perhaps the least important questions above, but since I know the answers:

>How does [OAE] relate to Loomio?Is OAE on paid subscription?

OAE has used loomio from the beginning, and owes the term at least, and much of the original concept to Enspiral, who also created loomio. But it has no other ongoing specific organizational or other connection.

We have the lifetime community subscription, already paid.

Arnold Schrijver

Arnold SchrijverMon 13 Apr 2026 11:14PM

@Lynn Foster that is fabulous. Thanks.

Danyl Strype

Form an OAE subgroup to experiment with reimplementing Loomio using HDA

proposal by Danyl Strype Closing Mon 4 May 2026 3:00AM

What is the decision you need to make?

I propose that a subgroup of OAE members is formed to experiment with reimplementing Loomio using a Hypermedia-Driven Architecture approach. With the stretch goals of a) implementing a plug-in system, allowing Loomio to be easily extended like WordPress, and b) to build a plugin for ActivityPub federation.

Please note: It's not the expectation that any code generated in this experiment would be adopted by Loomio, or used in production at all. Although it would be under AGPLv3, as a derivative work of Loomio, so they would have that option. The objectives are simply to;

  • Test an HDA approach by applying it to an established Free Code app

  • Provide a practical project a group of people could participate in to learn about how HDA works

Why is this important?

The dependence of web app developers like the Loomio team on JavaScript frameworks like React keeps them on a treadmill, constantly tweaking the software to keep up with changes to the framework they're using, and forcing major refactors every time one reaches End of Life. In the case of Loomio, this sucks development time and energy away from their most important work; engaging with the people using it to make decisions, figuring out how to serve their needs better, and building new features and integrations that do that. It also sucks time and energy away from a project like rebuilding Loomio to escape the dependence on JS frameworks, creating a vicious cycle.

Forming a team to experiment with using HDA to build a web app based on Loomio is a way to learn about and test the value of HDA in practice. If it succeeds, the code we write could inform the next major version of Loomio. Or failing that, it could become a fork that some people hosting Loomio instances for their own communities might decide to switch to and support going forward. It could also be a good way to revitalise the OAE group, and obtain a yield from the amazing network of people who've been attracted here over the years.

What are you asking of people in this proposal?

If you have software engineering or web design skills, or you'd like to learn by doing, in collaboration with a group, I'm asking you to volunteer at least 2-3 hours each week for the next 3 months. If we can get at least 2 people committed to this, I think it's worth setting up a subgroup and proceeding with the experiment. If you don't want to be involved, that's fine, there's no reason to respond unless you strongly believe this would be an inappropriate use of the OAE group space.

We're not aiming for perfection — give your consent if the proposal is good enough and safe to try. If you have an objection, say what needs to change to make it workable.

Results will be shown after voting has closed

1 of 260 votes cast (0% participation)

Danyl Strype

Danyl Strype
Consent
Mon 20 Apr 2026 4:01AM

I proposed it, seems silly not to take a position agreeing with it : )