Fri 9 Mar 2018 10:53PM

New Member Open Poll

JO Jonathan Ogden Public Seen by 400

Hey there,

Be sure to participate in the first decision on this community forum!

I'd like to collect some ideas from the community, add and/or vote on options here: https://www.loomio.org/p/nipzdF7K/new-member-open-poll


Jonathan Ogden Fri 9 Mar 2018 11:52PM

@benjaminkerensa it seems like there's a need to review the "purpose" of the MNA. How the neighborhood projects specified are enacted is not anything that was defined, it could easily be done through coordinating with those groups (e.g. Safer Spaces PDX), so your poll option is a bit confusing.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 10:16PM

So upon reviewing my previous email discussions regarding the use of this platform, I believe that even though we're only using it for survey data at the moment it does actually meet all of the requirements for public meetings that are held via telephone or electronic communication (so in the future it may actually be the deliberation, isn't that swell?).

I'll bring it up with Paul, but you can review the state requirements here: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/192.670
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/192.243 <--also applies to the rest of our requisite reports as I interpret that.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 10:29PM

Yeah @benjaminkerensa Idk man, the law really appears to be on my side here, I think I might just ask Paul if we can do away with physical meetings at all to have a continuous meeting online that just updates the membership whenever anything happens (like decisions closing). Might be cool to have that Monday open for a community party instead?




Jonathan Ogden Mon 12 Mar 2018 1:37AM

Also, there's a recommendation from 2005 to allow electronic meetings, so I feel like I can make a case for the platform (search "electronic meeting"): https://www.portlandoregon.gov/oni/article/70393


Jonathan Ogden Mon 12 Mar 2018 2:14AM

Yeah this looks like I can make the case that Loomio offers more of an opportunity for exchange.



Benjamin Kerensa Mon 12 Mar 2018 8:02PM

ORS 192 doesn’t apply to nonprofits by the way that applies to public bodies like city government which the MNA is not. MNA is subject to ORS 65.


Jonathan Ogden Mon 12 Mar 2018 8:15PM

Oh good you're back, right so it's kind of hard to tell since you seem to have deleted your comments but if that's the case it seems even more straight-forward: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/65.205

What am I missing?


Benjamin Kerensa Mon 12 Mar 2018 8:33PM

Your missing the ONI Standards which require meetings to be in a physical place.

But also if you even read that statute it states “Participation by remote communication is subject to guidelines and procedures that the board adopts.”

The board hasn’t adopted a policy but even if it did ONI doesn’t allow electronic meetings. Meetings must be open to the public to participate and must be at a physical location announced to the public.

I reviewed also the meeting where you suggest loomio was approved. There was no vote you actually just asked if you could explore options and even that wasn’t voted on.

There are video and audio records of every meeting your board has had since election.


Jonathan Ogden Mon 12 Mar 2018 8:45PM

So we're exploring options then, there's a meeting tonight and I've asked Paul to give a clear determination, perhaps I can get them to change their policy in 2018 per the 2005 recommendation; seems like you're mired in the bureaucratic aspect of this without thinking about how that can hinder growth, change is inevitable.

I think you need a new hobby also, just my opinion.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 12:05AM

It is actually, since I had already asked them about using a platform other than FB (it's no different). It just requires an eventual formal vote, this is effectively "outreach" or "market research".

Oh, also this is a public forum just so you're aware. It's only restricted in the sense that only MNA members are invited at the moment.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 12:24AM

Hmm, this may be the case for projects/matters proper, but in the context of surveying it was relayed that it could be done through any of the main modes of communication. Regardless I'll check into that for you, but the direct question to them previously was whether using Loomio in place of Facebook was acceptable, as I recall they had said it was so long as no decisions were made on agenda items.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 12:36AM

The invite limit for this platform is 100 persons, so eventually the entire roster will get an email once the pending invites are cleared, as far as the notices I'm not sure what's going on with that but there's currently no MailChimp account. In any case the standard announcement platform for meetings is still montavillapdx.org as well as the newsletter. Any issue with the communications should be raised with the chair, his contact email is available on the site as well.


Clem Fandango Sat 10 Mar 2018 7:53PM

Can we make an anti-Ben neighborhood watch to keep him from stalking people?


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 7:56PM

We can't target anyone specifically, but you can definitely start a thread about community solutions to member misconduct? Sorry, best I got.


Clem Fandango Fri 23 Mar 2018 10:06AM

Ben blocked me on here but I'm still getting everything he says in emails. Lol


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 8:28PM

I just go by the emails on the member list, I'm not going to tell someone what pseudonym to use or not so long as they came and registered at a meeting.

I don't really know the context of the accusation, but if you feel harassed you can submit a grievance. This forum is for consideration of inputs, I can't say which is more legitimate of a concern here. I encourage both of you to create a thread to try to work out an agreement/solution that other neighbors can follow/dispute.

Community-generated standards, ya dig? We have yet to vote on a code of conduct (as you've pointed out). @benjaminkerensa


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 8:47PM

For social media? Do you have a link? There is nothing regarding that within the Board Policies directory on the TeamDrive, so I'm not sure what you're referencing.

Also there's no requirement that people use their real names, authentication is done by the email being on the member list, if it comes to a dispute it can be handled in a mediated fashion. Not everyone can be privileged enough to feel safe with their name on a public forum (obviously you've not had a stalker yourself, social media does their work for them).

If you have any issues feel free to submit (another) grievance.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 9:10PM

Ok, I'll look into it, but I'd rather violate a policy than force people to make themselves vulnerable, if anything that will probably be an impetus to change that policy since as far as I know it's not required to give a name on a survey.


Sir Meow of Purrington Sun 11 Mar 2018 1:30AM

I am not understanding the argument that a "real name" be used, we don't have to present photo ID or even state our names when talking at the MNA meetings. It's kind of the same as wearing a name tag at a meeting that reads "Hi! My name is Sir Meow of Purrington ", it doesn't nullify that I am an MNA Member or nullify that my voice should be heard. If it is part of the MNA Social CoC, I'd vote to revise that criteria.

Real names apparently gives people what they need to go searching voter databases to get addresses or whatever else they are doing with that info. That's unsettling imo. I'm okay with folks having anonymity here. We have all already met the criteria to be MNA members. We are neighbors, let's be neighborly.


Jonathan Ogden Sat 10 Mar 2018 9:11PM

In the meantime, just try to play nice and come to an agreement?


Sir Meow of Purrington Sun 11 Mar 2018 2:02AM

as a side-note, your search of a voter database doesn't really say anything. you don't have to be a registered voter to be a member of the MNA the last time I looked.


Matthew Forgue Sun 18 Mar 2018 5:48PM

Is it possible to vote for two things? I voted for "More Montavilla Murals" because that sounds great. But I'd also like to add "Sidewalks, curbs, and storm drains on streets that are missing these things." Couldn't figure out how to add that after placing my vote.


Jonathan Ogden Mon 19 Mar 2018 9:38PM

Hmm I can probably enable that if it's not already.


[deactivated account] Tue 27 Mar 2018 11:42PM

If I remember correctly from some reading I did on this a year or so ago, individual property owners are responsible for the installation and upkeep of sidewalks and even paving the street. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/58466 and http://www.oregonlive.com/front-porch/index.ssf/2017/12/homeowners_caught_up_in_portla.html

That said, it does look like there's some possibility of having the expense added to other legislature: https://midcountymemo.com/oct13_sidewalk.html