Loomio
Sun 3 Nov 2019 1:14PM

A contract for the web

LM Lander Meeusen Public Seen by 39

The goal of this website is to bring governments, citizens, companies and organisations together that agree with the principle of an open, free, privacy-friendly internet and want to engage in a deliberative process to make a formal social contract for the internet.

I think the Pirate Party should be part of this initiative and I propose we sign the principles, eventhough it's a bit late in the process. By signing, this is what we commit to:
"At this stage we have a set of 9 high level principles which we see as guiding stars towards building a full Contract for the web.
By signing up to these Principles, you agree that these 9 Principles are a reasonable starting point for a conversation regarding these issues.
Signatories to the Principles commit to engaging in the deliberative process towards shaping what these commitments will be.
We acknowledge different stakeholders have different capacity to engage, and have created a process that tries to accommodate for these needs and provides different engagement opportunities. We believe that since the web is for everyone, everyone should have the opportunity to engage in shaping the Contract.
Once the Contract is finalised, there will be a new process for companies, governments, CSOs and citizens to sign up to a set of more prescriptive requirements."
(https://contractfortheweb.org/about/)

The 9 principle can be found on the landing page of the website: https://contractfortheweb.org/

What do you think?

B

bobrappe Sun 3 Nov 2019 2:11PM

It is very nice. I could'nt find where to sign

LM

Lander Meeusen Sun 3 Nov 2019 2:24PM

You can sign on the homepage, underneath the 9 principles.

You can sign as an individual or as an organisation. I propose we sign this as "Pirate Party Belgium". I wanted to know people's opinion about it and perhaps put it to a vote on this platform.

B

bobrappe Sun 3 Nov 2019 2:35PM

Ok

I am ready to vote on a plateform with our organisation.
Eugène Rappe
Envoyé depuis Yahoo Mail pour Android ( https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature )
Le dim., nov. 3, 2019 à 15:24, Lander Meeusen (Loomio)
[email protected] a écrit :

CC

Christophe Cop Mon 4 Nov 2019 8:42AM

I think we should support this, as in "we definitely need to support this".
If not as pirate party belgium, then Flanders, if not flanders, Antwerp. (but preferably as PPBE)

B

bonhivers Tue 5 Nov 2019 11:55AM

hy,

can i have Pirate in french !
thank'

Marianne Bonhivers
Rue du Tchêné 6A
5580 BELVAUX ROCHEFORT (Belgique)
Mobile: 0493/550803

Fixe :084/401942
[email protected]

LM

Lander Meeusen Tue 5 Nov 2019 3:11PM

[J'écris en anglais, parce que mon français n'est pas si bien. Si dessus tu trouves une traduction electronique, faite avec deepl.com. Je sais que la qualité n'est pastoujours très bien, mais j''espère que tu peux comprendre la plupart.]

L'objectif de ce site Web est de rassembler les gouvernements, les citoyens, les entreprises et les organisations qui souscrivent au principe d'un Internet ouvert, libre et respectueux de la vie privée et qui souhaitent s'engager dans un processus délibératif pour conclure un contrat social formel pour Internet.

Je pense que le Parti pirate devrait participer à cette initiative et je propose que nous signions les principes, même si c'est un peu tard dans le processus. En signant, c'est ce à quoi nous nous engageons :
"A ce stade, nous disposons d'un ensemble de 9 principes de haut niveau que nous considérons comme des étoiles directrices pour la construction d'un Contrat complet pour le web.
En adhérant à ces Principes, vous acceptez que ces 9 Principes constituent un point de départ raisonnable pour une conversation sur ces questions.
Les signataires des Principes s'engagent à s'engager dans le processus de délibération en vue de définir ce que seront ces engagements.
Nous reconnaissons que les différents intervenants ont des capacités d'engagement différentes, et nous avons créé un processus qui tente de répondre à ces besoins et qui offre différentes possibilités d'engagement. Nous croyons que puisque le Web est pour tout le monde, tout le monde devrait avoir l'opportunité de s'engager dans l'élaboration du Contrat.
Une fois le Contrat finalisé, il y aura un nouveau processus pour les entreprises, les gouvernements, les OSC et les citoyens pour signer un ensemble d'exigences plus normatives".
(https://contractfortheweb.org/about/)

Le principe 9 se trouve sur la page d'accueil du site web : https://contractfortheweb.org/

Qu'est-ce que t'en penses ?

FD

Florence D. Wed 6 Nov 2019 5:03PM

Bonjour Marianne, nos discussions loomio sont publiques et peuvent être lues par n importe qui, tu viens d'y balancer tes données personnelles. Pourrais tu modifier ton message ?

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 6 Nov 2019 6:04PM

Thanks for the suggestion @landermeeusen

I like the 9 principles mentioned in the document (which can be read in French or in Dutch. As far as I can tell, they fit to our own principles.

I do have a few issues, more related to the process actually :
- what stage is the process in? I couldn't really find it, apparently they asked for feedback (through a... Google Doc...) but it seems this stage is over. So signing now might actually mean agreeing not just with the principles but with the whole contract?
- are the signatures open to political groups? Maybe it would be relevant to ask about it (we might be currently discussing this without even having the right to do so, in the same way we were not allowed to sign the Public Money, Public Code petition)
- the list of signatures is available on the bottom of this page, so I'm surprised to find Google, Microsoft, Facebook... amongst other more friendly signatures. We certainly don't have the same vision of them of the web, so I don't know what to make of that information.

(FR traduction DeepL)

Merci pour la suggestion @landermeeusen

J'aime les 9 principes mentionnés dans le document. Pour autant que je sache, ils correspondent à nos propres principes.

J'ai quelques problèmes, plus liés au processus en fait.. :

  • à quelle étape en est le processus ? Je n'ai pas vraiment pu le trouver, apparemment ils ont demandé un feedback (via un... Google Doc...) mais il semble que cette étape soit terminée. Donc, signer maintenant pourrait en fait signifier être d'accord non seulement avec les principes, mais avec l'ensemble du contrat ?
  • les signatures sont-elles ouvertes aux groupes politiques ? Il serait peut-être pertinent de poser des questions à ce sujet (nous en discutons peut-être actuellement sans même avoir le droit de le signer, de la même manière que nous n'avons pas été autorisés à signer la pétition sur les fonds publics, le code public).
    • la liste des signatures est disponible en bas de cette page, donc je suis surpris de trouver Google, Microsoft, Facebook.... parmi d'autres signatures plus proches de nous. Nous n'avons certainement pas la même vision d'eux du Web, alors je ne sais pas quoi faire de cette information.
LM

Lander Meeusen Thu 7 Nov 2019 12:48PM

In response:
1)What do I commit to by signing?
At this stage we have a set of 9 high level principles which we see as guiding stars towards building a full Contract for the web.
By signing up to these Principles, you agree that these 9 Principles are a reasonable starting point for a conversation regarding these issues.
Signatories to the Principles commit to engaging in the deliberative process towards shaping what these commitments will be.
We acknowledge different stakeholders have different capacity to engage, and have created a process that tries to accommodate for these needs and provides different engagement opportunities. We believe that since the web is for everyone, everyone should have the opportunity to engage in shaping the Contract.
Once the Contract is finalised, there will be a new process for companies, governments, CSOs and citizens to sign up to a set of more prescriptive requirements. (https://contractfortheweb.org/about/)

2) I don't know. I have sent an e-mail to ask.

3)I agree. I feel Google and FB are using this as a whitewashing-operation, but on the other hand I also see GitHub and other free-internet-groups in the list. Along with a few local and national governments.

I

Ilja Sun 10 Nov 2019 3:13PM

-> What stage is the process?
"600 of you responded to the survey and your feedback informed the final Contract for the Web text — which we will launch on November 26 at the Internet Governance Forum in Berlin." Sooooo, I guess we'll have to wait untill 26/11 :grin:

-> Are the signatures open to political groups?
I'm seeing at least one congressman and one minister, but no parties (yet), so unclear atm to me too.

-> so I'm surprised to find Google, Microsoft, Facebook... amongst other more friendly signatures
It was started by Tim Berners-Lee[2]. My guess is that they really see it big. ATM I'll interpret this as; For FB and rest this is free marketing, for Tim this is a way of having the big players on board.

[1] https://contractfortheweb.org/2019/11/06/how-public-voices-shaped-the-contract-for-the-web/
[2] https://contractfortheweb.org/2018/11/05/join-us-and-fight-fortheweb/

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