Evaluate YesAndEra experiment

@theodoretaptiklis @lynnfoster @ahdinosaur @stevebosserman @orsans @timbonnemann

I think I got everybody. Hope the description above tells you what I am after here. I do want to give everybody permission to say anything, in case they need that. Although I assume most of you don't.

One other program note: I notice that nobody is finished with the first stage. And in fact they can't finish, because Soundcloud can't find the last track. No matter, Teddy says he will fix it and give us a couple of extra days, but he is on the road. I can commiserate.

But has anybody started? Has anybody done anything? Does anybody have any feedback?

Without feedback loops, how is a system supposed to improve itself?

One more thing, in case it is needed: this is an experiment. It may fail. Don't worry. Be happy.

I'll say a lot more later. And I hope you will, too.

I should also invite @richarddbartlett because he was enthusiastic about his previous YesAndEra experience and may help us to discover something that we may have missed.

Thanks, Bob. I took the missing last track as the coursework and answered the questions from the perspective of a dissatisfied customer lamenting the fact that the course materials were not available so I could finish the assignment within the timeframe stated in the daily reminders. In addition, I chose to evaluate the leadership of the Yesandera team based on their customer service and pose questions about replication from the standpoint of an Yesandera team member who might ask how can we stop this from happening in the future? And what can we do to minimize the damage to the reputation of our organization? That sort of thing.

So, yes, I can say that I have completed the exercise. And yes, I agree with you about the missing feedback loops. In fact, I would go on to say that their absence defeats the whole purpose of the exercise which is to invite online conversation focused on particular topics that illustrate collaborative techniques offered by the pedagogues yet give us the chance to learn from one another in a manner that is asynchronous but somewhat close to real time in our postings and responses.

To address the missing feedback loops, perhaps Yesandera would be willing to test drive Rocket.chat (I would NEVER recommend Slack, haha) for this purpose. I could see having a #channel for each module so we could asynchronously post our comments and check on the experiences each is having, ask questions for clarification, offer kudos for unpacking hidden points, all that good stuff that goes with effective collaboration.

That's where I am. I'm happy I'm done with this section - no worries. Looking forward to more experimentation!

so far so good, i'm up to the last section. happy to be a part of this experiment, especially with the invitation for inward reflection.

My computer died so I am struggling to get an old one up and running. This is the first time I could get to Loomio on it.

(Yet another of the things that happen in experiments...)

Ok, I got three of the six exercises done. Having trouble understanding the speaker in the fourth, and losing concentration. Will come back later and try again. Hope Teddy makes good with those extra couple of days.

I become impatient with these things fairly quickly, which may be one of the lessons I am supposed to learn...patience, that is...

[Edit] I'm now done with everything but the last one. Thinking about Steve's comment above, and what to write about my own thoughts about this experiment so far.

[Edited again: I did something like what Steve did, but with different content, in order to finish on time, at least in my time zone. Might come back later and redo if the audio revives.]

Hi everyone, I've just got back online in deepest France. I've shifted all the dates back by 4 days. On the backchannel question. Yesandera was designed to have an email backchannel when it was built a year ago, but we can obviously do better than this, so all suggestions gratefully received. The meta-conversation in many ways is the thing and the purpose.

I'll fix the missing exercise shortly. A big story on that one.

I've just re-emerged, so bear with me please for a little bit.

Thanks, @theodoretaptiklis

P.S. how many people are working on this? You and .... you?

@bobhaugen I had your experience with the audio quality. In several tracks I had to repeat them in order to understand what was being said. Of course, not only was the audio quality an issue but the language difference required more intentional listening than what I'm used to. And both of those are part of the package when having a Skype call with people scattered across multiple time zones, countries, access capabilities, and first languages, so I considered these conditions as part of the exercise.

The absence of a practiced backchannel, though, is more the norm in communication and collaboration. I don't know that having one makes that much difference in the long run. People have to see the value in it and therefore be incentivized to use it.

Take this one you've setup here. How many of us are in this group - 6? 7? Each of us has encountered the same challenge with the missing track, which could prevent us from going forward. But there were ways around it yet only two of us have talked about what those could be in this backchannel. Why? To me, that would be instructive and offer real insight into the nature of collaboration and problem-solving among team members in an virtual, distributed workspace.

Now, we have a four-day extension to process the missing track when it's resurrected. In my mind we lose an opportunity for bonafide learning. So what's the use of having a backchannel if it's not exercised?

@stevebosserman - we're using this backchannel. @ahdinosaur used it. So did @theodoretaptiklis .

The other people may not be connecting to the experiment at all. Lynn, for example, is paying attention to the backchannel, but doesn't have time for the experiment.

All of which is part of the experiment.

Teddy wrote and spoke eloquently about group conversations for action in the original Loomio thread and a hangout with me and Lynn, and I am thinking about how to do them, so I figured I should try his app, and am happy for the people who are doing it with me.

One aspect of a group conversation for action has to be the level of commitment of the group to the process. Can't tell for sure yet how much of that is the group, and how much is the process, and what are the stakes. Not too much at stake here. Might be different if it was dinner. Or a poker game...

Two-party conversations for action have several ways of dead-ending, too.

But what opportunity for bonafide learning are we missing?

P.S. I always have a backchannel, one way or another.

@bobhaugen - so the threads you refer to are conversation for action (https://www.loomio.org/d/69tuWRqB/conversation-for-action) and conversation for action now (https://www.loomio.org/d/XYk5WbzT/conversation-for-action-now!) which includes reference to the draft paper by @theodoretaptiklis (BTW, I like it a lot!) , "A proposed post-Cartesian landscape of collaborative practice for experimentation through the lens of quantum physics" along with several websites and such.

It is my understanding that this app with which we are experimenting might guide us in knowing more about the circumstances that give rise to the four collaborative patterns identified in the paper, what tools / techniques can we draw upon to help us as collaborators navigate through the conversational boundary conditions defined by those patterns (or the other way around?), and how to apply them so we accomplish more together.

The first pattern is "Mattering". You said, "One aspect of a group conversation for action has to be the level of commitment of the group to the process." To me, that means it has to "matter" to each of us. Because you precipitated this experiment, obviously, it matters to you. And you matter to me, so this experiment matters to me because it matters to you. How do others feel about it? Does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. So, in my opinion, there's an opportunity for learning here and without participation, we're missing it.

But I repeat this is merely my opinion! If I'm off base in my interpretation of what the background material means, then set me straight. I'm new to this group and the conversation for action has been going on for months so I may miss points along the way that others here take for granted.

@stevebosserman - that is exactly on base. I also liked that Teddy article, and was hoping his app would have some of that flavor. And if it doesn't, we will give appropriate feedback and suggestions for improvement.

This matters to me because I wanted to engage with Teddy and see where he would take it. Thus the experiment.

Beyond that, I think that conversations for action are this critical human protocol, which can be embedded in our social-economic computing networks as well.

How to do that is what all of these conversations and experiments are about.

OK. @stevebosserman @bobhaugen @ahdinosaur @timbonnemann @lynnfoster @orsans Pretending to be a coder, I've uploaded a new version of the missing SoundCloud track, discovered the id hidden in a string, and now the last exercise is restored! Please let me know if it's OK for you all. If you've answered the questions anyway without an extract to listen to, you can add to or modify your existing answer if you wish.

@ahdinosaur @timbonnemann - are you still engaged in this experiment? You are the people who have not finished the first part.

Last I heard, Mikey was still engaged, but had not finished the last track (which was missing at that time). Haven't heard from Tim.

@stevebosserman @orsans and I look to be ready to move on to the next part.

@theodoretaptiklis - where are we at on the time clock? Past the deadline? Or do we get a pass because of confusion? I'd like to move to the next part and see if it starts to make more sense to me.

Dear all, admin that it was a really challenging experience for me to pay attention to details of conversation as insteucted by someone else -because of sort of hyperaticity- but it was really nice mentalizing exercise for me to complete The first phase. I do share this to encourage others who are yet to complete The first step, otherwise i am also ready to move further!
Best, orsan

I listened and responded to the last tape, but I preserved my original answers based on the unavailability of the tape when I got to that section a couple of weeks ago. Regardless, I'm ready to move on to the next phase. Is there a way we can access the template for phase two ourselves or do we need our facilitator who seems to be missing in action to do it for us?

@stevebosserman - I did the same with the last tape. Now waiting on @theodoretaptiklis , I think. Or @ahdinosaur and/or @timbonnemann - they haven't finished the first stage.

But don't worry, it's an experiment. Whatever happens. When it's over, I'll summarize my experience, and hope others will do the same. And see if we learned anything useful.

My big apologies for my Mia status but I'm back now and even more committed to your programme for reasons I will explain shortly. But please let me know what help you need now. T

@theodoretaptiklis - we got three people who have finished the first stage, and want to move forward. @ahdinosaur said he was still engaged a couple of days ago, so let's see if we can get his attention and see if he wants to go the next stage: maybe give him a day to give us a signal? We haven't heard from @timbonnemann at all, so in the absence of a signal from him, I think we should drop him off the list.

I'll raise a proposal.

I'll make the adjustments needed for continuation later today.

We're all ready for the next round. Four people for the next stage. Just some guidance here: the aim of this stage of the work is to see oneself more clearly by trying to recognise the characteristic responses of others. The more clearly you can see the others in the experiment - what's going on with them, how they are 'being with' the phenomena (the recordings and the experience of the app) the more points of navigation you'll have at clarifying your own characteristic response (your strongest working muscles) and hence become positioned to work well with others (Oh, I can do this and you can do that, so together we can do this third thing). What we're trying to open up is how you can form powerful groups for action through strong and purposeful conversation.

Looks like only @stevebosserman and I are finished with the second round. Anybody else still working on it? @ahdinosaur ? @orsans ?

Bob hi, apologies again, know I am too late! Will try to finish tonight and tomorrow!!
Orsan

Hi there, i forced my self to motivate and take further steps but it was really hard to find varying answers to repating same questions. Apologies from all failing to finalise the comitment and letting you down too! some how lost motivation under a heavy pressure coming from a call center job I got some weeks ago. Terribly sorry for this..
Örsan

I'm not in a hurry. @theodoretaptiklis may have deadlines, but I don't. Motivation and repeating questions etc are all part of the experiment. Do you think you can finish this part at all, or not?

@ahdinosaur hasn't done this part, either.

I think I'd like to finish this part with whoever is left and see what Teddy has in store for us in the last part.

So far, I am not seeing this as a practical method of coming to agreements for action among multiple people. Takes way too long for busy people, and forcing yourself to motivate through excercises that do not seem to relate to the goal (which I have done too) is not conducive to happy conversations.

I might see the purpose as a team-building sort of thing, but that's not really what we are doing. We are trying to figure out a protocol for multi-person conversations for action. That is action, which might need to happen today.

@bobhaugen: much to discuss here. Recognise all of your discombobulations. Have been exploring all this in Paris, London & New York. Still recovering. Looking forward to de-briefing with you and fellow-CfA-ers. When you're ready.

@theodoretaptiklis - good grief, that is a lot of roaming!

I'd still like to go onto the next stage with at least me and @stevebosserman and anybody else who gets done with this one.

I want to find out more about where you are going with this,.

Don't take my comments above too negatively. It was my idea to do this experiment; I wanted to see what you had going and what we could learn from it. I thought early on that it was not really suited to conversations for action, but it's still interesting.

I concur with @bobhaugen. Let's do the "practicing" round even if it's just @bobhaugen and myself so we can engage in a lively debrief session. Ironically, @bobhaugen and I are in a situation with another group where the conversational patterns among virtual members this exercise seeks to surface for examination are playing out. I, too, would like to see where this complete exercise goes in order to gain potential insights into how to influence the dynamics in our collaborative group. So, ready when you are, @theodoretaptiklis.

@theodoretaptiklis @stevebosserman are we dead in the water here?
Steve has some insight that I want to follow, and both of us would like to try the next round.

So what do we do?

By the way, I don't know if you ever saw the guy who spun plates on old TV. He had a bunch of plates suspended on poles that stayed in place by spinning. He had to run around like crazy to keep the momentum going on each plate before it fell to the floor. That's how I feel these days. Got a lot of plates spinning, this is one. Need to give it a nudge now and then...

(Hope that all made sense...)

Thanks for putting this back on the table, @bobhaugen.

Yes, @theodoretaptiklis, Bob and I have another project in the early stages that includes participants who are not well-practiced in using open, online communication platforms for asynchronous exchanges in support of collaborative team efforts. Knowing where your methodology leads and more insights about how to take advantage of it would help us offer more informed choices for our future collaborators to draw from.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.