Ban plastic bags, and environmentally harmful washing up liquids and toothpastes from our waterways

So, a tiny policy change in the Office of Overseas Investment to prevent foreign ownership of water sources would solve this, and no new law or interference is needed to secure the NZ water from the foreign investment.

The policy looks to be "if you don't vote for UBI, you won't have any water to drink tomorrow" It's silly.

And Fluoridation is about making water more natural. All the studies that show how "bad" fluoridated water is were all done where there is no fluoride is added.

The nay-sayers are all insane. There has never been a single study that shows that the level of fluoride added to domestic water supplies has any risk of any effect.

Buy yes, if you go to the places in the world where the "natural" fluoridation is 100x the levels added to water here, you'll see problems. That's where all the lying studies are done. They target places where there is no fluoride added (because it's already in in much higher concentrations), and use that as an example, or by deliberately poisoning rats with lethal level doses.

Fluoride was added because our purification became too good. If you only drink distilled, 100% pure water, you'll have medical problems. There are trace minerals in natural water than give it flavor, but also give you needed nutrients. When the purification became "too good" there were some problems noticed, and so some "toxins" were added after the purification to return the health benefits lost because the water was "too pure".

Also, note that the anti-fluoride people are anti-democracy.

Ask them why they hate democracy. When there's a local vote to vote in fluoride, they complain about conspiracies and push to get the vote invalidated by a federal decision. When the federal decision is to allow it, they push for local exceptions. They don't want a vote or discussion. Anyone who says "fluoride" is a dictator, pushing to have a dictatorship pushed in to enforce their rules on everyone.

Just buy a water filter and stop pushing your insane on me. I don't want it. It isn't the water poisoning you. And bundling UBI to fluoride and water rights (linking only to US articles, nothing that indicates any problem in NZ), this drifts solidly into loony-land.

"So, a tiny policy change in the Office of Overseas Investment to prevent foreign ownership of water sources would solve this, and no new law or interference is needed to secure the NZ water from the foreign investment. "

Water ownership yes.

"Just buy a water filter and stop pushing your insane on me. I don’t want it. It isn’t the water poisoning you. And bundling UBI to fluoride and water rights (linking only to US articles, nothing that indicates any problem in NZ), this drifts solidly into loony-land."

Renewable energy UBI hasn't been tried, but solves basic income, fiat currency/inflation/usury concerns without replacing the Central Bank. So not loony, unless you mean loony in the sense of Project Loon, which "sounds crazy at first but works". Bottled water is not cheap, and might be unaffordable if not for UBI in the not too distant future.

With respect to fluoride, I agree it sounds loony, but I drink really good, natural water, which comes from our mountains and streams, springs and so forth... It doesn't need the filtration you speak of, we get it tested every year and it is "perfect". I just suggest you try it, as an experiment and see how you feel, but yes, you can still generate hydro electricity from flouridated water :) Flouridation has nothing to do with renewable energy UBI, but is an opener on the subsequent discussion of water quality, as in if basic income includes a right to water, water of which quality?

I think its also the privatisation of water resources that is the issue here, as opposed to their trusteeship by the people for the people.

@TaneHarre Did you even read the discussion on renewable energy backed UBI, and hydro electricity?

Resign, James. No trying to play nice. You threw that out the window when you started bullying members and now you have brought the last forums of the Internet Party into disrepute.

Resign, James.

Must see:

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/who-owns-new-zealands-water-2015041518#axzz3XrhV8FDV

No @tane, I will not resign, I'm happy to hold secretary if Fred still wants to resign after the return, and run as Party Leader. This is the same UBI that Laila and the executive last year chose to ignore, despite water rights looming on the horizon, and asset sales being a national disgrace! I'm always playing nice. I'm not bullying, I'm debating. I'm providing a more open discussion on executive strategy, some direction, as a leader should, or would you prefer it as @marchwinery suggested if the executive behaved the same as the old executive, lost the election, and everyone just swallowed their medicine after the fact or carried on as if it never happened? I'm dong it for free, as I have always done, yet according to Campbell Live, Laila got almost $4000 a week! Are you saying that executive members shouldn't show leadership? Have aspirations? Should be wealthy, and not have to sleep on a couch saving money for tickets? What have you got against me as opposed to the other members of the exec, apart from my dislike of the way the party was run last year. How am I overstepping a boundary to be considered a bully? I really can't discuss renewable energy UBI with you can I? Or party leadership? Interesting. What if we had another 500k left over from the last campaign to buy some offices, an incubator, or even a little orchard or farmlet, feed the kids, and rebuild rather than being in the red... I suggested we use some of our finances at the very beginning to put some computers/devices in Hone's electorate schools. There were many other good ideas ignored by the executive of the last election. Where are you criticisms of my ideas on academic merit? Would you consider handing IC over to the executive to administrate as part of a internet.org.nz? If not why not? Don't say it has anything to do with me... just wondering...
Solving water rights, assets sales, and implementing a renewable energy credit UBI has never been so critical, and it is all within our reach. You would rather live in disbelief than understand.

@tane You are the one making this personal.

I defend the process. In some cases, that's calling @pilotfever a nutjob for his views on fluoridation, and the inability to leave that alone when looking at the issues of foreign water ownership in NZ.

But notice, I call him a nutjob, and he doesn't attack or bully back. Because that is the process. Sometimes people agree. Other times they don't. But they can be polite (at least as polite as one can be calling someone else a nutjob), and not make it personal.

Following someone around on threads you aren't interested in or contributing to in order to hackle and harass is poor behavior.

Waiwera has been bottling and exporting water for a while. Is the issue that it's the Chinese doing it, or that it's being done at all?

The policy should be leases no longer than 10 years. Something may happen in that period that would change the demand for water. But if we have a surplus of "clean" water, why shouldn't we profit from that while we can? The water is 100% pure, right?

@marcwhinery I have at the request of Pary President asked that the present ongoing conflict be dropped from discussion. please give exec the space to consider and deal with the issues already raised.
thanks
Fred Look

So those in china who are rich enough to purchase water packaged in petrolium products and shipped at great consumption of oil can continue to despoil their local environment for those who cant ? There is plenty of water in China its just that as in New Zealand it is mostly unfit to drink! Dispite the logical and syntactical problems with this discussion at its heart is an important and urgent issue

@FredLook @KimDotCom @MichaelTucker @ChrisYong @GrantKeinzely With respect Fred, @marcwhinery has a voice which is welcome.
His posts are constructive. He is engaging on the topics concerned and disagreeing as is his right on flouridation. He is not following me around the forums to harass me personally.

Fred, you agree there is an important and urgent issue around water quality and its export and yet you (and the rest of the executive) are so slow to act and allow a unanimous press release, on such an important topic as our official meetup.com forums being open thanks to a generous donation by another member. This is an official forum where such matters can be followed up, discussed, regionally and in person, unlike Loomio.

I would love to be back in New Zealand but I can't afford a flight back right now as a volunteer. I rely on your CC'ing me in communications to further the internet.org.nz action points and help with filing the return.

What you call logical and syntactical problems, may just show a lack of research and understanding on any of the above terms, from fiat currency creation through ecological economics or environmental economics, renewable energy credits and what can constitute a basic income... I have been researching this for almost a decade, the best place to start is with the links I provided to technocracy in the 30's as it relates to the fundamental problem of scarcity. As a student, I have spent a lot of time researching this, and other topics, such as mass surveillance, organized crime, smartphone/AR/VR, mindfullness, military deployments, international law, and effective political actions.

All well and good but you have to take us all with you so i suggest you work out which concepts are the key ones that the others depend on and just sell us on those to start with. once you get the foundations established the sell gets easier as you build up on that common ground. Just saying

@marcwhinery

But if we have a surplus of “clean” water, why shouldn’t we profit from that while we can?

There's essentially two parts to that question:

1. Do we actually have a surplus of water? We don't really know but the declining state of our rivers and aquifers would indicate that we don't.
2. Is selling the water as water offshore the best we can do with that water?

@marcwhinery Absolutely important points, "But if we", "Why wouldn't we" are great questions for the scholarly, and worth a get together. I had assumed we did have as we are an island nation with North South mountains, regular snowmelt and little industry, thus our southern alps are great collectors of clean water, and we can run 70 percent of our country (up to 90 percent?) on hydro power.
Neverthless intensive dairying in by definition unsuitable areas are polluting rivers, not to mention effects of the Earthquakes which should also be considered. Although we have protected our acquifers by opposing fracking, we must continue to fight for and research the impacts of any proposals. I think this is exactly what we should be doing in our as yet to be reformed Policy Committee, taking our brainstorming into scholarly discussion. I asked for the names on the Policy Committee last year but have yet to receive it (I think they wrote some great stuff), perhaps @fredlook @grantkeinzley can obtain for us? I expect we will move strategy discussion, membership and fundraising along considerably after April 30th, and policy and asset committee formation are constitutionally required.

@pilotfever

and we can run 70 percent of our country (up to 90 percent?) on hydro power.

Nope. We're pretty much dammed up now and that's without hydro producing 70% of our power. For more power we have to go to solar and wind.

Although we have protected our acquifers by opposing fracking,

Nope, we haven't done that. Fracking has been used in NZ for ~23 years.

We have been successful in getting 3 city councils to oppose Fracking...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11893659 When chemicals do more harm than good. It was Kim Dot Com that resigned from the executive. I had hoped he would have done so earlier when it became apparent the SGM process had been abused, along with the constitution and he was playing favourites unsuccesfully. At least in part due to these forums I have been physically assaulted by the public and 'law' enforcement. When I say I was forced into politics I meant it: for the sake of my family, my community and our planet. As a former Colgate 5 star pentathlete throughout secondary school I urge Colgate to take a good look at the tide on water rights and Triclosan use and everyone, please support my candidacy in your favourite party(s) as I will make an excellent and much needed MP.
My previous whistleblower speech is available at theoccupyparty.wordpress.com recommended reading if you missed it last election cycle.

Candidacy 2017

https://youtu.be/uQwN0_wQv3k

@AbbottMaverick