Loomio
Thu 10 May 2018 3:02PM

Luigi Thread

TS Ticon Storay Public Seen by 290

This thread is to discuss the desired outcome/boundaries that is wanted from the community. This includes the rights/abilities to come back to the farm ranging from picking people up with his taxi service, coming back with Danielle as a guest, working with the community as a companion plant, or rejoining the community.

D

Dani Thu 10 May 2018 4:12PM

Main comment I have on this is that we will be doing business on the Peninsula, and it will involve overnight stays at times. Whether I stay on property or elsewhere is dependent on the decision here. Luigi is not interested in rejoining the community at this time, so both immediate and long-term perspectives are important.

As time passes, emotional and cultural competencies evolve, and personal viewpoints shift with learnings integration.. please thoughtfully consider future requirements and time limitations being expressed as policy guidelines with supporting individual agreements that may be necessary.

JR

Joshua Reed Thu 10 May 2018 5:34PM

Companion Plant (my understanding) - A member of the farm that is a close ally, that aids the farm on specific projects. They have and continue to help us out when they can. Just like companion plants in a guild they help build up mulch for the ground and nutrients for the surrounding environment. These members are able to offer advise in, however lack the ability to have a vote in decision making. Every tree has beneficial plants around to help nurture and feed to the ecosystem. Time frame on farm is specific for each project. Meals and Lodging covered.

I see Luigi as a Companion Plant. I harbor only love and acceptance for Luigi knowing, reflecting, and understanding more about the altercation. I made the first move today to actually talk to him, shack his hand, and then remembered and made a trip out of my way to bring him a package of photos that was delivered a couple months ago that I have been holding on to for either him or Dani. I would love to sit down at the proper time and have a restorative circle with him and all about everything and listen to him. I see growth in all sides and could be beneficial to address rejoining the Trunk program in the flow.

Boundaries for all, I think are our what we are saying our Community Living Agreements are. We are an alcohol free farm, respect the spaces, people and animals, leave no trace, being mindful of personal property and farm property, letting community know about arrival at earliest point possible, if a late arrival being conscious of noise level and knowing where to park, no late arrival with new guests(open for decision on this bc i can see both good and bad just saying), open for a decision about how to deal with sheets/bedding/towels and that matter for companion plants, able to stay on the farm without causing heavy disharmony in communal settings and as much love as he can give

D

Dani Mon 4 Jun 2018 11:21PM

With an upcoming trip planned to bring guests, I would like to know if people at the farm have any requests, boundaries to express, any protocol reminders etc. that I can facilitate. I won't be there for this experience as I'm not back from the states yet, but I'd like to come later in the month on another trip.

BL

Babbs lovin Wed 6 Jun 2018 3:26PM

I have no strong objections to Luigi visiting for a day with 2 friends.
In the future I would like to see respect of the communities boundaries that had been broken in the past.. ie drinking in communal settings.
I think that I could see Luigi being a companion plant in the future but only by having a circle and addressing what had occurred in the past.

TS

Ticon Storay Wed 6 Jun 2018 5:20PM

I'm really not trying to argue but I thinks reality checks are always important.

No one explained to him that he wasn't suppose to drink or ask him not to. Coming to that point, there is still no sign in the kitchen or way to communicate this guideline to the collective. On top of that the beach is public property, and he knows that being a tico. So what we are wanting/making rules for are actually not supported by local laws.

If we are asking someone to respect boundaries those boundaries need to be communicated. Also if we're not respecting the countries boundarys how we ask someone to respect ours.

BL

Babbs lovin Wed 6 Jun 2018 5:41PM

That's not true. To my understanding Danielle did explain this to him, especially for MMG. I'll go make a sign right now instead of continuing the newsletter I'm working on, because I feel strongly about this agreement.

I hear what you're saying, but by constantly playing the middle, never taking sides and trying to please everyone, isn't always received well quite honestly...
There will always be grey areas, yes, especially because we live in a country we are not native to. By addressing this, are you saying we should allow people to consume alcohol on the beach because the beach is public? To adhere to the countries "boundries" aka laws?

TS

Ticon Storay Wed 6 Jun 2018 5:54PM

I guess I didnt know about Danielle asking him not to. What did you tell him Danielle?

I'm not trying to please everyone. Im trying to make a balanced and fair decision. Which takes critical thinking on the 3D practicalities of situations.

In our last meeting we couldn't come to an agreement about the wording and guidelines to such a policy. So we still lake more comminication to even create such a policy.

I'm pretty sure we said that the beach was an ok place to do such things, maybe we can request and not require people to move further than the beach platform.

BL

Babbs lovin Wed 6 Jun 2018 5:59PM

I understand and maybe I was speaking from a place of emotion.

Let's talk more about it in the meeting today. I went over to make the sign but have no idea what to write and would like to come to a collective decision on what this agreement actually is. I thought I was clear on it, but now I'm not so sure...

D

Dani Thu 7 Jun 2018 11:59AM

Shell is correct. Luigi definitely knew it was a no alcohol space and made a conscious choice to disobey that rule based mostly but not entirely on Ticons second statement, that it is a public beach in Costa Rica, his own native land.

That said there were a host of other factors at play in both the time leading up to that night, and during that day.

Devon found him smoking in the kitchen, a blatantly intentional choice and one repeatedly made by others as well, including Vincent and Dax. Further precedent for smoking under roof choices are also made by Josh and Shell inside their own home, and others at the bodega, it has been a chronically moving line on a slippery slope with no defined consequence.

The alcohol that day began much earlier and offsite with Eddie and Chefe. Chefes behavior that terrorized Amanda escalated to Vincent and Dax, fathers already filled with angry protective energy, triggered Josh and Nain, and everything went into fear-driven, out of control reactions by EVERYONE, and kablooey.

Big mistakes made by many. Each with much to reflect on regarding their own behavior and choices and how it contributed to the overall situation, handling and collateral damage.

Yes its necessary to clarify the farm position, rules and consequences for violation AND, continue to develop a human growth potential-based process for guiding us all in working with people we love who have made bad choices on the outside due to unresolved issues on the inside.

I actively participated in facilitating Luigis departure because I saw it as the appropriate response to knowingly violating the property, and especially the event's no alcohol rule.

Manu of us, myself included, violated the no marijuana rule for the event, but weed doesn't bring violence, but rules were rules and once you start compromising in one place we spiral into chaos fractally everywhere... and must actively restore order because the human brain with all its previously wired connections makes wild leaps.

Its a matter of science that these experiences affect individual decision making processes, and take time plus additional, counteracting experiences to "write over" the other ones and reinforce good choice positive outcomes.

I have made the choice to stand by Luigi through creating new healthy patterns for caring about others and the earth over the self-interest, personal preservation patterns that are so deeply indoctrinated in him and in MOST people, because I believe in his spirit and ability and desire to overcome and live a joyful, compassionate, peaceful life in harmony with us.

TS

Ticon Storay Thu 7 Jun 2018 12:50PM

I didn't smoke ganja :d but I also that was sometime not even asked but rather sneakily included when I was making announcements. We had a core meeting yesterday and one thing we discussed was guidelines and how the core needed to follow them if they set them. One thing we could still work out is rule enforcement policy

JR

Joshua Reed Thu 7 Jun 2018 1:44PM

My understanding of the smoking under roofs is that, it is no smoking under roofs of communal spaces, but if everyone consents to it then it is ok as long as its not an event or the kitchen.

D

Dani Thu 7 Jun 2018 2:08PM

There is no judgment or even pointing of fingers anywhere here, I was using smoking, weed and tobacco, as an alternate metaphor to demonstrate how rules get conditions, modifications, exceptions and qualifications that make it tricky to negotiate and easy to slip and fall along the way.

And how our brains, based on our past experience and hallways of perception, make leaps that one can THINK justify breaking rules.

*I have edited my statement above to correct grammar/spelling and the inaccurate "We all" to "Many including me" :D

TS

Ticon Storay Fri 8 Jun 2018 5:30PM

That perhaps why I feel its better to have guidelines and not rules. One because it makes it hard to tell who is abiding and who is not, but then also creates the issue of "enforcement", that creates somebody who is trying to punish others for their actions.