Finding a balance: Social and economic outcomes of alcohol

Something discussed yesterday at the Alcohol Strategy Workshop was similar to this - the relationship between the local community and alcohol. Something that Ben Ogilvie and I talked about was that need to work on the relationship between the suburbs and the CBD, and using the resources within each to create an impact regarding the alcohol issues. Within the CBD we discussed that in bars and clubs - rather than 'banning' people and 'limiting number of drinks' which would cause potential economic downfall within these sanctions, we could use people such as bar tenders and bouncers to their full potential. We discussed that there is no incentive for bouncers and bar tenders to 'go the extra mile' and further help the patrons that they may have removed from their place of employment due to over intoxication - so we need to provide them with an incentive to help. There should be further action taken after someone is removed from a licenced premise to ensure that drunks aren't stumbling around the CBD - instead of leaving them to wander the streets bar tenders/bouncers could give them a bottle of water, a place to sit and rest, aid them in finding transportation back home to ensure their safety. We didn't particularly think enforcement of more rules would necessarily help - rather we need to use resources to their full potential in order to see change.

@binglou There was also talk about when a patron first enters a bar of club, that a discounted taxi chip or route of transport sold to them before they become intoxicated to ensure that they do have a safe way of getting home and not spend the money to buy more drinks later on in the night.

Clinton, thank you, you bring up some interesting points and I have a few questions:

First, can you bring forth evidence regarding off-licences being the primary source of alcohol during special events like Homegrown? It seems a logical conclusion but we need data to confirm this.

Second, we all surmise that pre-loading is the primary issue, do we have any real data to support this? Again, it seems a logical conclusion but we need data to confirm this.

Third, you propose legislative changes are required to fix the drinking issues, but again provide no evidence save a Stuff.co.nz article.
What evidence have you found that legislative changes such as you propose has an effect on adverse drinking?

Forth, you bring up police ticketing underage drinkers and the people buying them drinks-What evidence have you found that this is an effective strategy in dealing with adverse drinking?

Fifth, you state: "...we all see the problem as being societal attitudes and availability of cheap alcohol." yet sideline societal issues in favour of legislation towards off-licences. Why is this?

I think before we start trying to fix the problems, let's be sure we have found out the source of them for certain-because otherwise we will just be applying a plaster to a septic wound.
More data would be great, and evidence of approaches other places have taken that has actually worked, not just shifted the problem.

It seems that we are looking to legislate a huge amount of things when perhaps we need to look at our society's attitudes towards drinking and if we can mold that into something more positive, perhaps through education programs.

Amanda, you bring up an excellent point-bar and club workers have no incentive to help drunks, and in fact the law is very clear that if a person is found to be intoxicated upon a licensed premise, the premise/bar staff can be liable.
It's in this case that any intoxicated people are removed from the premise without any responsibility for the intoxicated person. Thankfully, many bar staff in Wellington will make sure the person is into a taxi/with friends or the like.
However, this brings up interesting points:
-Does this law actually prevent harmful drinking?
-Is this law fair upon bars/clubs when pre-loading is common?
-How can these persons be looked after once being ejected from the premise, especially if they're alone?

I think the "Stick with your mates/look after your mates" campaigns have been fruitful(I would like to see evidence on this), perhaps something similar could be done for pre-loading and binge drinking.
(Binge drinking being high dose, short time frame drinking)

What does Off licences meen?

@rubendehaas I think this basically means bottle stores or shops like corner stores/ dairies which sell booze.
someone correct me if i'm wrong

@gisellebareta, do you have an easy definition of what constitutes an off-license premises for @rubendehaas?

Off licence = Alcohol sold for consumption off the premsises i.e. from a bottle store or grocery store/supermarket

On Licence = Alcohol sold for consumption on the premises i.e. at a cafe, restaurant, tavern

Hey look, a big green circle showing a unanimously agreed proposal :)

I realise that I have missed the opportunity to vote on this current decision. However, I would like to add that we should also consider the amount of off-licenses that we have in the city (and suburbs).

I see value in restricting the amount of off-licenses that can be operating in the city at one time. I live in Newtown and as a community we are constantly battling proposals from people wanting to open more off-license stores. There are enough places to buy alcohol here already - having more open just increases the availability of alcohol but also the encourages the intention of drinking. It makes drinking alcohol as a pasttime a highly available and often cheap option.

The increasing number of off-licenses changes the vibe of a city or suburb. It promotes buying alcohol as a normal past time and it also restricts other stores from opening in their place that might encourage other forms of socialising in the city.

I think it makes sense to think about how available we want off-licenses to be and create an inner-city restriction on the number of them around so alcohol doesn't just become the easiest option for socialising.

Hey @hannahmackintosh just to let you know, you can also raise further proposals within this same discussion, for example about the number of off-licenses. The topic here is multifaceted so let's explore the different aspects together.