Thu 7 Mar 2019 8:01PM

The DNA of collaboration

OS Oli SB Public Seen by 124

Perhaps we might try to model a formula for organisational collaboration on three simple rules: Cohesion, Seperation and Alignment - and define a protocol to aggregate, visualise and disseminate the murmurations? Some initial thoughts here: https://open.coop/2019/03/07/defining-dna-collaboration/


mike_hales Thu 7 Mar 2019 8:28PM

IMO this is well worth exploring @olisb thanks. A small quibble regarding naming . . you've tagged this thread with 'DNA' but the example you're reasoning with in the article is Cellular Automata. Seems to me, the latter is way easier to adopt as a model, and might do the job, as you imply.

Your article's murmuration/automata reasoning triggers thoughts, for me, on how a 'pluriverse' might work - Arturo Escobar's important concept of harmony in the future, challenging, post-modern, federationist world, where there is no Modernist expectation of some singular universe inhabited by all communities. Here he explores pluriverse and degrowth,.and here in Patterns of commoning he explores pluriverse and commons. Myself, I might be inclined to tag this thread as 'The plumbing of the pluriverse'. Whatever . . I hope it gets traction :thumbsup:


Oli SB Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:12AM

Thanks Mike - you're right, the DNA title/analogy is weak - "protocol" might have been better...

Thanks for the Escobar links - the Patterns of Commoning is great


[deactivated account] Thu 7 Mar 2019 8:59PM

Thanks very much for inviting me to participate in this conversation. I am deeply curious to know where it will take us.


Thierry M. Thu 7 Mar 2019 11:10PM

Could there be a git repository related to this DNA so that mutations could happen via forks and pull requests?


Oli SB Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:21AM

Hi @thierrymarianne - That sounds like an interesting idea... we're you thinking the git repository would be for the "organisations collaborative DNA" i.e. each org submits their Purpose, Scope tags and RSS to a repository, or that the general idea could be on git somehow..?

I love the idea that it could be forked and evolve...

Mainly I'm wondering whether it would require Orgs to publish their "Collaborative DNA pages" in a specific way / format, or whether a clever spider would be able to pick up and pull out the Purpose, Scope tags and RSS feed if, for example, those titles were simply H tags, with the variables directly after them...?

I guess it would be easier to test the visualisation (murmurations) aspect if Orgs added the data to a centralized database (at least to start with) but I like the idea of it being completely distributed and that Orgs only need to add a very simple page to their own site. But then how would they make other related orgs aware they had done so...?


Bob Haugen Sat 9 Mar 2019 3:21PM

Doesn't need to be centralized (altho github is centralized). We're working with projects in 4 decentralized protocols:
* ActivityPub
* HoloChain
* Scuttlebutt
* Solid

I think the ActivityPub or Solid projects might be the easiest way to do what you are thinking about. I am not personally very connected to the Solid project, but @jonrichter is.

And then you will need a common vocabulary...


mike_hales Fri 8 Mar 2019 10:34AM

I read the article again. The cellular automata approach still looks good, with its three components - cohesion, separation, alignment (each of which requires a short para to explain what it means). But in making an operational translation into three other constructs - purpose, scope, RSS - it seems to me you’ve lost the goose that might lay the golden egg. These constructs can so easily be applied in a casual, careless way, so that nothing of the original terms’ careful meaning remains in the descriptions. I’d say you need to retain the complexity and specificity of the original framing concepts. That’s a lot harder to police of course, as a protocol. But what we’re chasing is a pretty elusive thing, not easily reduced to something that an algorithm can crunch?


Josh Fairhead Sun 10 Mar 2019 3:20PM

I responded to the blog post but it seems the convo is actually here :)
What do you reckon of the following collaboration pattern based on musical allegory? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qa-U2twXdte1sjgbx6VXa2ekohGkEp0rpzOSPiZ6hmY/edit?usp=sharing


Oli SB Sun 10 Mar 2019 7:46PM

Thanks @joshafairhead I loved your article - seems like we are definitely thinking about the same idea... although I was trying to imagine how we could visualise the murmurations that might already be happening between existing organisations and movements... and it seems you are talking about a recipe for forming and developing new groups. Still, there's loads of overlap in the ideas. But I'm still wondering how we could test / experiment with these concepts...? Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.


Josh Fairhead Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:29PM

@olisb - yeah, I think we are on the same page for sure. Re: measuring our current interactions, sadly I'm not sure we do those particularly well intrinsically. It would be great to have a measuring stick of sorts though as a gauge for base level efficiency would allow us to measure improvement.

Re: implementation, it's tricky where I'm at (Giveth.io) because it requires heading cats. i.e. theres no telling people what to do, but we might have people that would jump on board in our channels if they have the bandwidth. It is possible... We've had a few web cam work jams at Giveth based off the article. We're somewhat calling it the Gov-lab game, though we've had to iterate a few times so its only MVP until activity is more consistent. Maybe you fancy joining our channels and trying to stir some pots?


Bob Haugen Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:41PM

@joshafairhead giveth.io is interesting.
Am I interpreting it correctly? A lot of Ethereum projects are working together?
Are they all working together on giveth.io ?
Or are they all friendly to each other but not necessarily actively collaborating?
Or something else?


Josh Fairhead Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:25PM

@bobhaugen Oh man, thats a question! But yeah it's an interesting spot. Many of those projects were somewhat accelerated via our non-entity and so are both friendly to and working with/on Giveth. It is a place of permanent flux and potentially infinite stake holders...

The first order narrative is that we intend to build and curate circular economies around 'common' causes. The second order narrative is that we have constructed a five team meta game to go to Odyssey.org's hackathon and collaboratively build the mechanisms required (Bonding curves on chain, preference signalling, and macro economics between DAOs). The third order narrative is that we are all staying together on a big boat called Mars.

Most of the people we have attending in various teams are made up of people collaborating in multiple dimensions; for instance Sponnet is Swarm City, Dapp Node & Giveth and probably a bunch more... An as a side note we're probably over time gonna redo the messaging to be more commons orientated since of recent we agreed theres no need to reinvent terminology thats been used for the last 20 years :)

We're a bit scattered as its multi-stakeholder, but we have a number of "first membranes" if you wanna say hello. Theres the Riot community above and a shelling point I setup here if Loomios more your thing :)


Bob Haugen Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:31PM

I'll study the Loomio conversations. Neither that nor Riot are necessarily my thing, but they have different paces, so generally Loomio is better for study after-the-interaction while Riot is better for interacting.

Edit: In general, it's heartening to see so many Ethereum projects collaborating with each other in whatever ways. I am not in the Ethereum arena myself, though.


Josh Fairhead Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:42PM

Appreciated, I can point people at you in either of them should you wish to get in contact with anyone, but the Riot (especially social coding) is more official :)


[deactivated account] Sat 23 Mar 2019 3:44PM

@gregorycassel @bobhaugen and all. If you have some time free tomorrow you might like to join this conversation re "Holochain/Junto/CoGov: Scalable Solutions for a New Paradigm" via zoom as I plan to: https://www.facebook.com/events/349242592360369/?notif_t=plan_user_invited&notif_id=1553310561817933


Bob Haugen Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:17PM

I could carve out some time but not 1-5 MDT. Maybe like an hour in that span? And I don't do FB. Options?


[deactivated account] Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:33PM

It's not taking place on Facebook anyway Bob. It's taking place on zoom: https://zoom.us/j/2911233061?status=success


[deactivated account] Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:34PM

I'm sure it's totally fine for you to join for just as long as you want to. 5 hours is a bit of a marathon, and I imagine that many people will be attending for just a part of that.


Bob Haugen Sat 23 Mar 2019 4:41PM

Thanks for the zoom address. Any idea of a good time to pop in for an hour? If anybody else here plans to attend, I might coordinate with you.


[deactivated account] Sat 23 Mar 2019 8:32PM

Ray, the host and organiser, is super chilled and laid back. Just do what works best for you


Bob Haugen Sun 24 Mar 2019 7:10PM

Just tried to join. Zoom says "host has another meeting in progress".


Josh Fairhead Mon 25 Mar 2019 3:58PM

@adamwaterhouse; Would love to have joined, please let us know about the next one :)


Oli SB Mon 25 Mar 2019 4:15PM

Hi @joshafairhead - I'd like to invite you to a group Zoom call, to discuss ideas about the DNA of collaboration, on the 3rd April if you're free - please can you send me your email - via DM @defactodesign or via the contact form at https://open.coop/contact/


[deactivated account] Mon 25 Mar 2019 6:58PM

I can do Josh, but you can also follow them yourself and/or view the recording of the event on their Facebook page.


Josh Fairhead Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:07PM

It would be much appreciated if you could! I do have an account and hit follow but it's still very unlikely to be seen in time as I view its as a distraction... just a stubborn non-tech minority keeping the account active still ;).

Do you know if they have a mailing list, I'd be happy to sign up to that!?


Oli SB Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:19PM

More info about the webinar on Catalysing collaboration at scale: https://open.coop/events/catalysing-collaboration-scale/ - please do spread the word :)


mike_hales Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:28PM

Thanks Oli. Looks good except - the event is advertised as 4:30-6:30 am. Shurely shome mishtake?


Josh Fairhead Mon 25 Mar 2019 7:53PM

@olisb - Sounds great I'd love to join you!


What time zone are you suggesting those times at? On April 3rd I'll also be occupied with the Odyssey hackathons "Jedi summit" from CET 16:30 onwarwards). They are very aligned people FYI so it would be great to bring them in.


I dropped you a mail via the co-op form since the loomio name wasn't linking properly ;)


[deactivated account] Mon 25 Mar 2019 8:27PM

Hey Josh,

I suggest that you send Ray a message via the contact page of his website and ask him to keep you in the loop: http://cogov.startbutton.com/contact/


Josh Fairhead Mon 25 Mar 2019 8:29PM

Perfect, thanks Adam :)


[deactivated account] Mon 25 Mar 2019 8:50PM

You're very welcome! :-)


Oli SB Mon 25 Mar 2019 9:00PM

Thanks @mikeh8 good spot - now corrected to PM https://open.coop/events/catalysing-collaboration-scale/


Oli SB Mon 25 Mar 2019 9:03PM

The event is at 4.30pm UK time - so @joshafairhead your "Jedi summit" starts one hour earlier I think... do you have any more info on that? How long will it run for? Maybe you can bring some people over to our Zoom once the Jedis disperse!?


Josh Fairhead Mon 25 Mar 2019 10:21PM

Actually, your calculations are crorrect but it turns out I noted the time down wrong and the "Jedi's" assemble from 18:30-21:00 CET. Soooo, I can do an hour on the call beforehand! I'll try corral some people to turn up early and join the call, failing that how long do things look set to run for? I'm defiantly up for open advertising.

Edit: date is wrong also. Assembly on the 4th... flight on the 3rd!

Edit2: shilled in the Odyssey community: https://odysseyprogram.mobilize.io/main/groups/29565/lounge/posts/304648?tab=comment


[deactivated account] Tue 26 Mar 2019 9:09AM

Can you please specify on the webpage that the time zone is GMT since this is an international platform and there may be people interested in attending from many different countries and time-zones - thanks!


Tiberius Brastaviceanu Tue 26 Mar 2019 1:33PM

Hi all, I took note of the "DNA of collaboration " document. The idea is interesting, but I think it is insufficient to explain collaboration in open networks.
In trying to understand commons- based peer production networks, we make use of living systems, social intelligence, game theory and other theoretical frameworks. See more here http://valuenetwork.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page


Danyl Strype Fri 29 Mar 2019 7:51AM

The WikiMedia Foundation are launching a "global consultation about communication", so any insights shared here about how folks communicate within and between projects (both processes and tools) could be somehow fed into that. I encourage anyone involved in collaborative wiki projects to take part in this consultation, especially if you use MediaWiki.


Oli SB Wed 3 Apr 2019 11:58AM

just to clarify - the open Zoom chat is this afternoon at 4.30pm BST all welcome https://open.coop/events/catalysing-collaboration-scale/