Location for CB24

I personally enjoyed having pre-existing infrastructure. It really facilitated the activities we wanted to engage with / prevented too much of a focus on necessities of building things up. Would we have the capacity as a group to develop the yurts / facilities we valued?

Of course it is more work, but I believe that bell tents similar to the "Zen dome" which we erected by the sauna at Marthrown could be developed into spaces of equivalent function to the yurts.

I’m personally wary of too much growth too quickly- I think one of the best aspects of Celtic burn is the small family feel, where you get to know everyone over the week. There are plenty of larger burns out there, do we need to become another one? Larger burns are also fun, just not as intimate…

As for the discussion about build and participation, I think if we were to move to a site with less or no infrastructure, a small build crew arriving first is absolutely vital. In fact I feel like even at Marthrown there would be huge benefit to it-there’s a reason all other burns work this way. A site with for example no toilets, no power etc would need these things in place before the majority of people arrived to avoid absolute chaos. At Marthrown this year, it was very stressful for those of us who arrived first to make sure everyone parked and camped efficiently so we could fit everyone in- if we could have arrived one day earlier it would have made a huge difference. Yes it worked, but at the cost of unnecessary stress for some. Having a gate/greeting team ready and set up on site to give new arrivals information and check people in/welcome them is also important I feel, and adds to the burn experience greatly, especially for first time burners. There will always be plenty to do for everyone else arriving- art pieces, temples, effigies, decor, chill spaces etc, so you very own will still be creating the event, but having core infrastructure and information providers in place before the main arrival is really important and something I feel we have not got right at Celtic burn yet.

@Sam B hahaha we love talking about build. We seem to agree and disagree in subtle ways. For me it's all about certain institutions becoming centralised, and that leading to unhealthy expectations and dependancies in the future. I'm sure we'll chat about this closer to the time. For now I think I just added that discussion point to bring awarness of the tasks involved in potential new sites and cultural implications. Also added a line at the end for specific advice sought

@Sam B I agree with you on all this - hectic stuff getting things set up especially as not everyone who attends participates in the set-up anyway, so i.e. this year at times there were people milling about while others were trying to construct things - makes for confusion plus also potential for some salt-inducing vibes as you're deep in the build phase while others are in party mode. that said I also like the energy of things continuing to emerge as time goes on and everyone (who is up for it) being a part of the build vibes. the emphasis on it being ok for things to not all be done at the start is really good and can definitely be retained while also having some busy bees who are up for it deal with core infrastructure while site is quieter - really just takes a bunch of stress off.

Not sure if I'm going against the grain or if it has already been decided that we want a new venue for Celtic Burn.

If not I would be keen to approach Marthrown to investigate options. If we decide stay I think the site could do with a bit of ground work even with the current numbers. (Remove some tree stumps and trim bracken) If we decide to grow is there the possibility to clear, possibly level a bit more of the site in lieu of some of the fees. Anyone else keen on seeing if there are options at the current site?

@Untipr just to note the capacity at MArthrown is more about the cost of their insurance, I believe

Personally quite enjoyed having the infrastructure (yurts) even though it was a bit of a “bougie” burn. Loved having the hot tub and sauna as well (to be honest I think the ease of nudity they create helped create a small portion of the sense of intimacy for me). I enjoyed the small size, but given how many of us loved the week, I can see why there might be interest in expanding. I know personally I’m hoping to recruit some friends to come and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

I quite like the idea of seeing if there are options for expanding at the current site somehow, if there were enough people with capacity to support with groundwork, if that were an option available to us.

Re: the main thing you wanted advice on - Trello’s use for storing options and forming groups for discussion. - Personally I’m not very used to Trello and can’t quite imagine how it might be used for storing and discussing site options. I suppose one could make a “list”(as Trello seems to call it, or whatever you call the groupings of tasks) where a proposed site could be made a task and chat about it could go under the task? Is there any voting/poll option on loomio or trello? I know some things can’t simply be put to a vote (even after discussion) but at least some way of keeping track of amount of favor for given options seems desirable.

I’d not participated much in discussions pre-CB this year because I find both Loomio and Trello difficult to keep up with (Loomio because it doesn’t have an app, and Trello because I find it difficult to tell what tasks are most recently discussed). So apologies if I’m asking about something that others have figured out long ago. Going to try to get my head around both platforms.

Re: your proposed date for decision it seems reasonable but I don’t know how easy or difficult it was to find Marthrown and how feasible end of July is.

@Rachel I agree and support what you said about the ease of nudity, which was created by sauna and hot tub, supporting the overall sense of intimacy of the burn - an aspect which we all cherish :)

To address your technical musings: Loomio does have a built-in polling option; but if you don't feel like using that you can always get a quick'n'easy "temperature reading" on a communal question by making a Poll in the Celtic Burn topic in the Scottish Burners group on Telegram https://t.me/+auh5XT3E_Zs4NWJk

A few thoughts on this topic: (translation: essay ahead)

I do love the bougie camping feel but Marthrown is just not very private. One of the site-owners is always about, particularly at the hot tub area (so I actually felt much less comfortable with nudity than I do at other events!). Also although the bougie vibe is restorative and comfortable, I do think some of the core burn elements get lost at Marthrown.

Having just been to nest I have come back with a few thoughts re fire specifically. The fire element - effigy and temple if we want to follow tradition, or another route - really adds an important ceremonial dimension that we of course have been missing. What makes an event a burn rather than a really unusual festival? For me the ceremonial aspects, points both for reflection and also observing beautiful, huge art are an important part of this. I'm not saying one thing is better than the other and I have gotten so much out of CB so this is in no way a criticism! But I do think it is an important element that is worth adding. It's in the name after all! There is potentially some discussion here about culture and steering the path of the event in the future - but I personally would steer it in the direction of more wild freedom on the site and also incorporating these major ceremonial elements. (could they be ceremonial without fire? also an option of course but the fire is pretty sweet and also would help with the cold...)

Part of these events for me is that feeling of building a village and things clicking together in motion, which (again, in my impression) did emerge this year - but there was one thing a bit funny about it, which is the fullness of self-reliance. It is another thing I thought about after nest - having to carry my emptied beer tins around with me until I took them to the central recycling made me think about my consumption and be aware of my impact in a way that having conveninent (and centrally emptied by the site) waste areas did not (not that it was really that hard at nest either). This sort of thing happens in various ways at Marthrown. It is quite comfortable but I think precisely the challenge is quite important for making us think and (again, for me) an important part of the event. Perhaps I am a bit self-punishing but I also think (slightly more) self-reliance is a valuable teacher.

A few logistical notes on infrastructure:

• we can deffo hire a sauna if in a field with minimal infrastructure - personally am 100% ready to get that ball rolling (this may come as no suprise to anyone) - yes ££ but also a different site is likely to be much cheaper

• it will still be very cold and we will need some infrastructure. We do have some funds left from the last 2 years as we budgeted insurance very conservatively and had an emergency buffer in the coffer - this can be used towards investing in infrastructure, we can also borrow (i.e. zen tent, if they allow us again) and that kind of stuff.

• Some sites may exist that have a very small amount of structure, or a building or two with us erecting the rest... I'm not necessarily advocating for 0 structure (I would add a toilet block to the list above as an optimal addition as hiring toilets is a pain) but there may be something suitable out there that is a bit more in the direction above!

Finally expansion - I'm not opposed to some but we should be careful not to do too much too quickly. We added 40 this year, I wouldn't go above that level of addition and possibly not even that many if we're transitioning to a new site - should be evaluated once we know whats up seperately imo.

Will it be harder to be in a field with less infrastructure? Absolutely. But I think it would be worth it. That said we need to find a suitable location, and pronto! Happy to help with the hunt.