The Meaning of World Revolution.

O oswgwhe Public Seen by 37

What is the meaning of, that we will have the Training on Wed, and First Nation people leading off the Gathering on Thu, and there will be non "white" people leading our GAs, and there will be a FEM GA?

The meaning of the movements impelling ongoing world revolutionary change -- not various "revolutions", because the mismatch misunderstanding of evolution vs revolution bedevils us -- is a 'Total Social Fact'"-Jean-Francois Revel 1970.

And it must be emphasized that males are learning to be less patriarchal. However that doesn't mean that females and males and other genders don't understand-know that their food comes to them from structures that, after Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique", must be named. The name is Patriarchy.

To explain "The Meaning" -- apart from allowing the First Nations to give what "we" are incapable of giving, and seeing how meaningful that giving is -- will require deep knowledge of the French Revolution, which is-was the inception of "World Revolution".


Justin Wed 23 Jul 2014 8:06PM

Are males learning? Are not these kind of posts (speaking for 'other genders, groups & races) patriarchal in nature?

You seem to identify the problem then declare the solution the said groups should take. Pretty patriarchal tactic to take.

I'd rather focus on creating safe spaces where groups are empowered and can offer their own solutions.


oswgwhe Wed 23 Jul 2014 10:57PM

By posting this discussion I'm trying to reconcile a history of patriarchy with, that our movement happens during the time when women have asserted more power. Revel's "Total Social Fact" which he says is true "anthropologically speaking" refers to the differences between socialism and capitalism which have been noted since the 1700s by Europeans, and which First Nation Elders have suggested is a distinction that only Euroamericans can, or need to, make. Because either way food will get distributed unevenly unless the "facts" of the matter correspond with salutary common sense. "White" Euroamericans have uncommonly wrong facts, which they believe and which they force others to believe, only because they are better fed.

If a person isn't energized by more better nutrition than another, the person can't indulge in non salutary common sense. They can't spin theories that produce facts that require certainty as certain that 1 + 1 = 2. They can only spin uncertain theories that nonetheless protect their unfair position. Allowing them to believe that their existence couldn't be any other way, since there is only a partial theory to explain how person's might indeed have appropriately equivalent portions of food.

If the reader wonders why I mention food and not perhaps say, clothing or shelter, or enjoyment or freedom, or mentioning food instead of mentioning health, its because the Total Social Facts of world revolution revolve around unequal access to food. One of Revel's characteristics of the ongoing world revolution that was started by the French Revolution and which the 60s-70s Counter Culture tried to continue, is that a revolution (as he means the word) can only happen among well fed people, yet whose good fortune hasn't turned them against those from whom they unfairly got their food. The changes in thinking that led to the French Revolution, involved too many poor hungry people, and that same phenomena partially drives our Occupy revolution, hopefully moving it into a "World" revolutionary format. Revel's book is titled "Without Marx or Jesus", Doubleday NY 1970.

Yes, this is confusing to me also. I only write it as though I'm confident of what I'm saying, because I have read a lot of Karl Marx. I think most people only think of Marx's sociology like "The Communist Manifesto", and haven't even seen his mathematical scientific work where he describes the discovery of Surplus Value. That, Surplus Value, is the Total Social Fact. People create value whether they like to or not. The only question is whether we value the proper things.

Think of Surplus Value as though it were a drug which is involuntarily fed into you. You're addicted and you don't know it.


oswgwhe Thu 24 Jul 2014 5:38PM

I'm glad to finally have a conversation with you. Maybe you could answer these questions regarding your post above.

"Are males learning?"
Do you have an answer?

"speaking for other genders, groups, & races"
Which genders groups or races do you think I'm trying to speak for?

"patriarchal in nature"
What is the nature of patriarchy?

"you seem to identify the problem"
What problem have I identified?

"then declare the solution"
What solution have I declared?

"pretty patriarchal tactic"
How do you characterize a patriarchal tactic?

"groups are empowered and can offer their own solutions"
Which groups are you referring to?

Best wishes, Sea.


oswgwhe Fri 25 Jul 2014 12:22AM

I realize I must explain my comments about Elders which are associated with Native Americans, First Nations, Indians, North American indigenous people, Tribes, Bands, Reservations, Rancherias. And as I will be trying to demonstrate, associated with "The Four Directions", the Medicine Wheel, and with various other cultural motifs, that "we" require for our understanding. "We" the "white" Euroamerican descendants of those people who did the genocide and who continue the ecological destruction.

So let me say first that yes, "we" are simply their descendants and "we" didn't do genocide and are trying reverse the destruction.

However, if our Loomio group and the reader can avoid declaring that I am either deceitfully patriarchal or arrogant or ignorant or perhaps insensitive to the very cultural-ethnic sensitivity that my postings have shown so much concern with, I will simply say that when I say Elder with a capital E or tribal elder etc, I'm not referring to a particular group, or a certain person. Nor am I referring to persons who must have been alive before or who are alive now. I'm referring to a teaching that I'm trying to show is intimately related to the reality of whether there can be a World Revolution, or whether we can all evolve and be nice with each other, and with plants animals and elements.

"Elder" to me is a teaching that can be promulgated from many sources including young people or old persons like myself or anybody, even if they can't really stretch it and claim to be Indian. Elder teaching can be learned from books, experience, and through direct transmission, as for example from the people who will be guiding us during the first couple of days of the Gathering.

With this partial clarification, maybe persons will then refrain from suggesting that I am trying to specify a group or that I am recommending the solution to a group's problem, which only I have identified.


oswgwhe Wed 20 Aug 2014 9:52PM

There is a constant negative tension between, what people think is the problem and how they talk about it on the one hand, and how they talk about it being determinate of what they see as the problem on the other hand.

We can learn mathematics that has been improved by the influence of Karl Marx as well as by Native Americans, to resolve the negative tension.. However its thought Politics and Economics must stick to the authority proclaimed by privileged mathematicians, instead of considering there could be a better approach to resolving the tension. HWM and academic mathematicians ignore Karl Marx and Native Americans. HWM stands for “Hollywood, Wall St, Madison Ave”.


oswgwhe Thu 28 Aug 2014 5:47PM

Think of the universe as “mind” with us perceiving and sensing as though we continually learn our “mind”. Add the notion that a physical apparatus through which we perceive and sense is necessary, a priori. These two tropes might nicely connect Marx's discovery of surplus value, Native American spirituality, and our physicality. Physicality originates as the mere inflow of universal mind stuff which we capture and call “us”, and which our minds use to form further thought.

Thinking elements, thinking plants and animals, and thinking people, now, in 2014 learning to end war. War is the first and overall source of other human miseries. War can be as simple as a localized conflict.

Physicality begins and ends with food since I'm talking about a human physicality that that perceives mind, and which aligns itself with other physicalities and their minds.

The history of Western Civilization indicates that its people and institutions have been built according to quite different assumptions than what I have outlined above. I think our psychological sciences have developed their ideas of therapy on the basis of a philosophy and metaphysic that is inconsistent with the idea of perceiving-sensing minds having to confront physicality. And we have to confront the growing white-male controlled USA police-state situation.

I'm implying that Surplus Value, Native American spirituality, and a physicality that is necessary for the existence of an a priori mind, are the three key intellectual processes that Occupy must come to grips with.

World Revolution depends on world history, which is static compared to world revolution. The latter requires a political and economic dynamism which Roman and Protestant Christianity's eschatalogical approach to history, thwarts. World history is static because its part of Western Civilization which has achieved economic and political domination, by using a Middle Eastern world scientific and world historical paradigm. The paradigm is promoted by the Torah, the Bible, and the Koran. The paradigm assumes eternity and no change, instead of a constantly changing here and now. HWM presents cultural entertainment and economic money benefits that effectively prevent all people from learning about world revolution, by spinning a tale of world history, that exists only in the minds of the world's most aggressive armies. They slow the changes that Vine Deloria Jr writes about and that Thomas Kuhn explains. Deloria and Kuhn put meaningful meat on the spare bones of the paradigmatic shift, which we assume we are creating