Loomio

sub sub groups

Joum Tue 10 Feb 2015 5:46AMPublicSeen by 22

I am trying to understand what would be involved in tweaking loomio to enable the creation of subgroups from within subgroups. I found the ideas this and this in the roadmap so there might be others thinking about this.

This is WAY beyond my ability but I though I would have a look and give it a try.

I notice there is a group_hierarchies table which I guess is generated from: db/migrate/20140107211331_add_groups_hierachie_table
ie.
create_table :group_hierarchies, id: false, force: true do |t|
t.integer :ancestor_id, null: false # ID of the parent/grandparent/great-grandparent/... tag
t.integer :descendant_id, null: false # ID of the target tag
t.integer :generations, null: false # Number of generations between the ancestor and the descendant. Parent/child = 1, for example.
end

I was wondering if the 'generations' number is the key and how they are limited.

I tried a cheat by entering the browser address of a subgroup and added "add_subgroup" to the end.
eg.
http://localhost:3000/g/NoEi6DYA/parent1-subgroup1
becomes
http://localhost:3000/g/NoEi6DYA/add_subgroup

and it took me back to dashboard with "you don't have permission to do this" message.

Richard D. BartlettTue 10 Feb 2015 6:44AM

Before looking at the technical implementation side, would you mind giving me an idea of what user experience you're trying to achieve? I'm really interested in this question and want to pull out the different use cases so we have a good idea of the design challenge.

JoumTue 10 Feb 2015 6:56AM

I want to show people an example of a decision/discussion platform like loomio that could be used to mirror the structure of government.

In Australia we have Local, State, Federal. These would be parent groups.

Federal has Upper and Lower Houses. Next level or 1st subgroup.

Lower has electorates. 2nd subgroup.

Upper has States and Representatives. 2nd and possibly 3rd subgroups.

In my preferred example I would start with the parent group "world". Then Country. Then whatever each country has for its structure of government.

Probably way beyond the scope of loomio, but I have to try something and start somewhere. I have looked at other platforms but loomio is something special, perhaps its simplicity, and it has a simple ability to create a tree structure; but it only has 2 levels of branches.

Richard D. BartlettTue 10 Feb 2015 7:46PM

What functionality would be missing if you set up each of those as independent groups?

If you set up the nested tree structure as you describe it, I'm trying to understand what behaviour you imagine would happen in each of the layers? e.g. if I'm a member of World > Oceania > New Zealand > Wellington > Te Aro, what permissions do I have in each of the layers above me?

And a bonus question, is the "world" group any different from "the internet"? :-P

JoumTue 10 Feb 2015 8:48PM

The base level of a democratic parliament is an elected representative. They are the tips of the branches but also the roots. The end goal is to have an place in the internet platform that the politician recognises as a duplicate of their position. Then, if a person is to run for that position with the promise to adhere to the directions they receive from the internet platform (an epolly), any sitting politician knows that the internet platform is more than a lobby group - it is a threat to their job. This would create a situation where politicians would take note of the platform even without a person being elected as an epolly.

The reason for the tree structure is to mirror the structure of government with the tips of the branches being the elected position.

The tip/epolly-position/subgroup is the place where people live. It is the electorate. It is here that people would get their 'enrolment' validated. The 'admin' of this subgroup would be responsible for checking that the members of this group are registered voters of that electorate, perhaps by sending them a letter to their home address. This is where the internet becomes real world people.

Also, the tip/epolly-position/subgroup is where people can go to express their thoughts and wishes on a local level. It is here that they can instruct their representatives differently to the other electorates.

But sometimes people want to talk and make decisions as a larger group, so they could move through the tree to a less local more global level. People can vote as a country or as a locality. As you might see, this means that the decision platform must bleed between the levels, and this would be my next focus. Ultimately every decision would need to filter down(or up) to the elected person/electorate where a person will carry it to parliament.

Robert GuthrieWed 11 Feb 2015 12:34AM

@lbjoum I think that you're trying to do way too much with the group system we have in Loomio.

I would recommend that you externalise the structure and use independent Loomio groups.

Ie: What if you make a separate web page where you draw your structure out, and link to the loomio groups that correspond to different nodes.

Then you can clearly identify what happens across the relationships of the Loomio groups.

Richard D. BartlettWed 11 Feb 2015 2:44AM

My thoughts exactly Rob :)

JoumWed 11 Feb 2015 7:00AM

Thank you both. I will explore your suggestion.