Loomio
Fri 19 Jul 2013 3:34PM

Liquid Democracy in Loomio

JS Jeff Swift Public Seen by 476

I've been doing some research into various kinds of democracy, and I'm intrigued by the idea of "liquid democracy." This might have already been discussed here, but I wanted to see if anyone else would be interested in this sort of thing.

The basic idea is a democratic system in which most issues are decided (or strongly suggested to representatives) by direct referendum. Considering nobody has enough time and knowledge for every issue, votes can be delegated by topic. Furthermore delegations are transitive and can be revoked at any time. Liquid Democracy is sometimes referred to as Delegated or Proxy Voting. source

So, as I understand it, liquid democracy is somewhere between representative and direct democracy, leaning toward direct democracy. I'm intrigued by this idea of being able to "delegate" the weight of my support on particular issues to particular people. So, if I trust my friend on environmental issues, I can give her my support on those specific issues. This will free me up to focus on the issues and deliberations that I am more knowledgeable about and interested in.

I could see this being a useful addition to the Loomio system for a number of reasons. Personally, I'm not able to keep up with all the different conversations going on at any time, and even if I were able to read them, I wouldn't be able to engage in the background reading needed to really be able to contribute meaningfully. So, either I skim most of the discussions, or I just ignore them.

If, however, I were able to indicate my support for an individual in some way on a specific issue, and that support were made visible to others in the discussions where that issue was being discussed, then at least I would know my support is playing a role in those deliberations even if I wasn't personally engaging in them.

I would imagine this would start very small, a few individuals delegating specific things to close friends. It's a new and odd way of thinking about deliberations. But, eventually, I could see a robust system of liquidity, where support is extended and withdrawn and deliberations are more productive and engaging for everyone.

It would require a system for people to "delegate" their votes, and vote-recording system, so that people can track how their "delegates" vote and make sure they still deserve that support. It would also require some kind of system for people to see how much "support" each person has about specific issues. There would surely be other issues, but these seem like the biggest ones.

But, like I say, I'm only now exploring these theories. Here are some more sources I've been looking at: The Wikipedia article on liquid democracy, Der Spiegel on the German Pirate Party's use of this model, Community Wiki notes on the idea.

So, what do you say? Would this work with the overall goals of Loomio? Could this be implemented in such a way that it takes advantage of both direct deliberative democracy?

MB

Matthew Bartlett Sun 15 Sep 2013 8:28PM

@maxnoble tell me more...

MN

max noble Tue 17 Sep 2013 9:32AM

@matthewbartlett have you seen the TED talk "The great firewall of China"?

MN

max noble Tue 17 Sep 2013 9:34AM

@neilmorris
I got an error on the FB signin for Cookie
Puma caught this error: must pass either a code parameter or a signed request (via signed_request parameter or a fbsr_XXX cookie

MB

Matthew Bartlett Tue 17 Sep 2013 9:36AM

@maxnoble — nope; thanks; I'll check it out

MN

max noble Wed 18 Sep 2013 7:35AM

THe basic strategy is as follows;
1 make copyies of all western social sites in our country.
2 run all socail data through Beijing computers
3 mine the data for common public unrest.
4 make a high level decision to solve problem
5 take action

MN

max noble Wed 18 Sep 2013 7:36AM

Its a hidden hybrid version of democracy...and to be honest I think its much more effective than our western corrupt systems.

MN

max noble Wed 18 Sep 2013 7:43AM

The big question in all systems is...how to prevent corruption?

RA

Ricardo Araújo Wed 18 Sep 2013 10:04PM

Liquid democracy is good to force representative groups in an a organization to gather as many colleags as possible so they have the more representative power inside the organization. Delegative is algo good because the delegation is not static. somo one may be elected at a specific time by couting delegated votes but with that can change, people can change their delegation, and it's bat for the person elected. so the elected person in this system has more pressure to acomplish promisses or the his image may turn very bad if in some poit he has less delegated votes than the ones that eleted him, and wors less than competition. It may not loose the place for wich he was elected for but his "authority" will be seryously compromised. At some point, at some percentage of droped delegation there could take place a new election, since the current elected person doesn't represent the minimum persons percentage established.

MDM

Michael Duane Mooring Fri 13 Jun 2014 12:33AM

Liquid Democracy could also let someone subscribe to interests they care/are informed about and vote on those while giving their vote to other topics to other popular experts/friends on those matters.

So with a Loomio mobile app that did liq-demo like this, I'd get a notification on my device whenever there were votes I could vote on for matters of having floride in public water or voting on Solar Roadways, or voting for NASA's budget ect...

MPR

Miguel Prados Rodriguez Fri 13 Jun 2014 6:46AM

Uau ! I am very very glad to read the practical experience of @torstenfischer related to liquid democracy, really glad. Sometimes you are convinced of something and then experience puts you back to real life. I have never been a fan of liquid democracy because I think it gives good bloggers the capacity to legislate due to the power of delegation (no good), If it also affects motivation as Torsten said, then it is nothing fun this liquid democracy thing.

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