Loomio

NZ POLITICAL SYSTEM of public governance & administration

DU William Asiata Public Seen by 439

Let's look at and discuss the protocols of how our public institutions go through the process of making decisions.

AF

Alan Forster Tue 8 Dec 2015 10:05PM

Compulsion. At the moment it is illegal not to register but actual voting is voluntary (and has to be, otherwise the contract is voided)..
im told the reason for this compulsory registration is so that the entire adult population is contractually bound to the elected government. The common misperception is that the vote itself is the contract. (hence the "i didnt vote for them, they're not my government").
Abstaining from voting has no effect on the result, the election goes ahead with the same proportions just smaller total numbers.
Most people do not understand that the government is a corporate entity and that all our interactions with it are legal "contracts",
The birth certificate is the contract by which a government can enforce an education,conscript soldiers and charge taxes, (it becomes "ownwer / controller").
Voter registration, legitimises the government to make decisions for us by proxy power.
The truth is obscured, and it can be argued that
any such contract is void on the basis of the "terms" not being disclosed,
Go through the process of regaining your birth right of sovereignty from the system and you discover that your parents gave it away unknowingly when they registering.!
Birth registration is also compulsory.

DP

David Pate Wed 9 Dec 2015 7:53PM

Participatory democracy is a process emphasizing the broad participation of constituents in the direction and operation of political systems. Etymological roots of democracy (Greek demos and kratos) imply that the people are in power and thus that all democracies are participatory.

AF

Alan Forster Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:13PM

So actually im saying politics needs to go radically backward
to it roots. The trouble starts when someone else is elected to represent others, A crowd of individuals is very hard to
corrupt, But an individual senator or (mp) who represents that group is easy. (concentration of power, is coruptable,) I don.t know if it ever actually worked the way it should but i believe it could and i cant think of a better alternative..

PMB

Pamela M Bramley Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:14PM

As a voter when I look at party politics each party often has policy that I would like to see as a strong influence. I often wish I could vote for policies rather than parties and individuals who I believe could lead those polices choosing from the candidates across all the parties. The broad portfolio,s of housing, climate change, industrial law, economy, etc. with the candidates standing for these would be my preferred way of voting.

PMB

Pamela M Bramley Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:16PM

Maybe then each portfolio could seek agreement for proposals through referenda of the voters.

PMB

Pamela M Bramley Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:19PM

Online voting of say 75% for this through something like loomio would involve the voting public in decision making. Maybe we would join the portfolio's that we wanted to be involved in and not others.

AF

Alan Forster Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:40PM

Party politics, brings issues of its own, the adversarial nature of group dynamics with opposing ideas we are told is better.To much time and energy is wasted posturing, arguing, insulting, and defending the leader etc.Parties representing different socioeconomic groups
are classicist, eg trad Labor (workers) Nats (business owners etc). And support the disparity in power and wealth. We need a better format

Most honest good people look at the system of clowns and puppets and lies and don,t want a bar of it.
And that's why we get the wrong people in
the job doing it the wrong way.
Pay rates matching corporate rates (to keep mp's honest) don't work with corrupt or greedy people.
There is no "performance review" which relates an mp's
behavior or pay rate.
Can it be fixed.?
.

AF

Alan Forster Wed 9 Dec 2015 8:47PM

Yes Pamela that makes more sense, independent candidates stand for portfolios, With referendums held
weekly (manual or electronic) Electronic voting has its own issues (eg:ease of tempering).

PMB

Pamela M Bramley Wed 9 Dec 2015 9:11PM

Manual voting has its problems with lack of turnout and involvement

CE

Colin England Wed 9 Dec 2015 11:42PM

Electronic voting has its own issues (eg:ease of tempering).

Even paper systems can also be corrupted and detecting and finding the influence would be harder as it would require massive time and labour to go through everything again. IMO, a party political system actually encourages such corruption.

An online voting system, IMO, could actually be more secure. Partly because, after voting ended, the system could send me a secure email telling me how my vote was counted and with system in place that would allow me to change the vote if it was counted incorrectly which simply cannot be done in a paper system.

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