I'm extremely interested in pursuing this, and will put it on the agenda of the next CBC Skype meeting on 26 April. As I think I've mentioned previously, I've already been discussing similar ideas (incubators, mentoring) with current and former members of Edinburgh Student Housing Co-operative - several of whom are working on potential co-op ideas. Count me in.

happy to add my name (for what its' worth) in support of this - wonder if it might be able to build on existing lasped materials (such as CDAnywhere and the old enterprise hub - especially as one of the aspirations of that was to see something like this emerging from within the groups it supported)?

I forwarded the email with Mark's initial post to several of the ESHC students, one of whom has now come back asking if he can join in the discussion. But as this appears to be a forum for CDB members only, I'm wondering if we should start a new discussion group to include potential barefoot co-operative developers?

Hi Martin. You could propose their membership of this forum (like we did with John Goodman) , which is already wider than the physical CDB Forum. Alternatively there is a discussion around this on the Loomio group for the SolidFund.

With the collapse of Northants CDA, we are looking at the possibility of setting up a "virtual" CDA based loosely on the old CDA Anywhere (www.cda-anywhere.com) template. Apart from documentation, templates, fact sheets, and FAQs, It will include a register of local co-operators (and any CD professionals still standing) able and willing to offer guidance and assistance. Happy to share the model and evolving refinements as we progress.
Best wishes.

Yes please let's do it. This is what DAWN do in the USA. (Democracy At Work Network). Peer to peer accredited and supported cooperative development by worker cooperators. Bob

I think that there might be some discussion around this proposal at the Worker Co-op Weekend but I don't know if I can get there in time as I'm doing this https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/calderdale-bootstrap-2017-tickets-33408708346?aff=efbevent Can someone feed back who does go?

If any aspiring barefoot co-operative development workers wish to explore the idea of working with CAN they can download a simple form here and use that to put their idea to us. Similarly, if any co-operative is interested in working in partnership with us for co-operative development they only have to drop us an email to start the conversation. We are always open to new ways of working together.

That is our current position, which we can put forward without having to invent any more internal systems.

We are open to ideas about programmes to facilitate barefoot co-operative development and will consider them as they arise but don't have much more to contribute to the process of developing such programmes at this stage.

Happy to work with members of existing co-ops in Bristol and wider area...

I'll be honest, I'm a little wary; barefoot CDWs will do some things well (direct support, especially within the same sector) but other things not so well (securing local funding, and developing fundable projects; maintaining a consistent public profile for co-ops in an area; developing detailed expertise...) and if scarce resources are diverted away from CDBs that can both both, that's a problem.
However, putting that to on side, peer to peer support is quite obviously a Good Thing, and we'll do what we can to support it here in the west country. Outside community energy, I can't say there is much evidence as yet that there are people willing to get stuck in to mutual aid in this way though.

And housing co-ops, lets not forget
Radical Routes Alex ;)

Ah, I was referring to Devon and Somerset in particular; and there is a tragic shortage of housing co-ops in the area despite our best efforts over the years. Of course, 6 Fingers and a Tail is a notable exception, and they might well be up for it.

Blimey are they still about, say hello
from me if you see them

The CDA in Bristol was set up in 1980s by local co-ops because they wanted to get on with their roles within their co-ops and not spend time talking to groups about being a co-op and how to do it. That said, the CDA always uses advisers that have first hand experience within Co-ops so depending on the capacity and skills within local co-ops there is potential. I wish there was some way of getting Federals, Worker Co-op Council and CBS talking together as there is cross over here which could lead to duplication.

Quick update. This didn’t get discussed at the Worker Co-op Weekend, however John Atherton and Co-op Culture are working up a proposal for a funded pilot project, focusing on Worker Co-ops that we will take to the SolidFund - watch this space. We'll share it here too when we post.

Some of you have noticed via other forums that the SolidFund agreed to fund two workshops around worker co-ops getting involved in co-operative development. We are currently seeking expressions of interest from members of worker co-ops who would like to attend one of the workshops (London and Manchester). Please forward this information to any worker co-ops who you think might be interested. They can register their interest using the Google form below.

https://goo.gl/forms/TguoMPjHc6FGGNn12

Interestingly we have had several members of existing CDBs apply to attend. The workshop is aimed at worker co-op members not currently involved in formal co-op development, so we're not sure what to make of this.

maybe it's an indication that many in the CDB field feel that there's precious little by way of directly relevant CPD opportunities?

That's another issue Adrian and one that the CDB Forum used to partially address, before its declining attendance. Is there anything else that we might be doing? We'll certainly be discussing this at the next CDB Forum. I'm starting to favour a mixture of virtual meetings with face to face meetings piggy backing on events likely to have attending CDB's anyway - Congress, Future Co-ops etc. Possibility of themed fora too? Would suggest we pick this up outside this thread.

to build on what @bobcan and @adrianashton said, my experience doing Jim's ILM course was invaluable in terms of hearing the experiences of/building relationships with existing coop advisors - having a mixture of levels of experience on the course was wonderful. But it was a 10-week course, not a taster, so i don't know how relevant that is

If CDB workers have relevant recent experience why would they not be involved? I'm all for barefoot CDWs but there needs to be people involved with the experience to say ' that's good but have you also considered X, Y, Z?'. In my experience coop activists often don't know what they need to know and usually don't know how to resolve needs they are aware of. That's when they import inappropriate techniques from hierarchy world such as HRnormal and which either don't work or damage the coop.
Helping barefoot CDWs to understand how to be the catalyst to effect self learning in worker coops is a an important role for us CDBworkers not currently in a worker coop.

The purpose of the workshop is to introduce worker co-op members to the nuts and bolts of co-op development and the CDB sector - it's scope, business model, sources of support, challenges. We also hope to explore the motivations, reservations and expectations of worker co-ops in getting involved in co-operative development. It will certainly be useful to have other CDB practitioners there to contribute to that, but we will favour non practitioners (or those already dabbling with co-operative development) over existing practitioners, where the workshop is over-subscribed.

This is only the beginning of this action research and there will be other opportunities to get involved.

The original inception was to introduce barefoot CDW's to the ways of working - which includes a hefty dose of understanding the difference between symptom & cause, the role of a CDW i.e. different approaches to support and understanding the limits of your own experience and skills (as hinted at by @bobcan). The danger of CDB folks filling the room is that they will stray into very technical issues and discuss (or argue about) things pitched at a higher level than the introductory stuff needed by barefoot practitioners. We have to bear in mind the level at which this training is being pitched. This is not CPD for CDB workers. That should be addressed separately. If there is an appetite for that, could we not arrange something based on mutual support/shared contribution? Barefoot CDWs could be encouraged to attend and that would the opportunity to learn from other CDB folk.

I think the idea of workshops at Future Coop's and Congress (and possibly other events) for introductory workshops are a great idea. One concern I have is that the time needed to understand Cooperative Development work fully, is extensive. However, providing the seeds of understanding is especially useful for people who work in worker coops, as they have a commitment to the Cooperative values, principles and ways of working. However there is a problem with business advisors getting a taste of of Cooperative and Social Enterprise development work. That is that within a day they think they know what they are doing and I know many of us have had to spend many often unpaid hours, unpicking the problems bad advice and support creates.

Hi John. Some clarification on what is being proposed at the moment:

1) The mention of piggy-backed meetings was to address the desire of existing CDB's to attend the initial two action learning workshops we have funding for. Adrian stated that he thought that this desire to attend, by CDBs, was due to a lack of CPD opportunities for existing CDB practitioners. My response was to say that possible changes in the CDB forum meetings (on the agenda of this month's meeting) would possibly address that.

It is not proposed at the moment to have introduction to CD workshops piggy-backed onto other events, although I wouldn't discount it.

2) It is also not the intention to deliver a one day workshop and then send people out as CD practitioners. The initial proposal at the top of the thread states that the purpose is to explore how "members of existing co-ops can actually deliver peer to peer co-operative development in conjunction with CDB's." That remains the intention. We will bring co-op members up to speed with what we do as CDBs, how CD is currently funded, explore what CD work they are already delivering (if any) and then explore how any potential delivery by them might work - their aspirations, the barriers and opportunities etc. We'll then feed all that back to the SoldFund and discuss the next steps with all stakeholder groups.

HI Mark,

Is it possible for the feedback to come to the CDBs as well as the Solid Fund as it does relate to the work we do on the ground and it would seem disjointed for the Solid fund to be discussing how barefoot CD workers can work in conjunction with CDBs without
input from CDBs? Or am I missing the point?

Hilary

Hi Hilary, Yes that's the intention. As they are funding the workshops, we are of course obliged to report back to the SolidFund. Their members response will then feed into the discussion that must also involve CDBs, funders, The Hive, Plunkett, potential new Funds etc. I anticipate that we will only write one report and share it with everybody. We don't know where this is going yet - we're just stirring the pot (with a Kickstart from SolidFund) and seeing what happens. I'm thinking that we'll also need some CDB input prior to the workshops to check the questions that we'll be trying to answer - watch this space.

Hi Mark, thanks for the clarity.

I spent years trying to do coop support from one worker coop Suma to others. Its not easy which is why I also set up another coop CBC as a consortium network so coop activists could support each other and train each other in CDW skills.

I continually tried to get experienced Suma members to use either path to share their knowledge. Very little success. Sometimes if it was directly relevant to a suma coop customer or supplier, people would do it or colleagues would agree to pay me to do it.

Suma and undoubtedly other longer established coops continually provide advice and support to sister coops and to supplier and customer coops. Things like business advice eg shop stock, financial management advice and frequently from me, HR and membership development advice.

But that's different and less scary than walking into an unknown coop with unknown people and high emotions (they called for help usually.) You need handholding onsite, an apprenticeship arrangement, to get the confidence to do that. Ive done that too. There are a few Coop Dev practitioners who I took under my wing and in areas where I was lacking, others did it for me (thank you Kate.)

But the coops need an ongoing relationship with trusted individuals who are mentors. I'm Uncle Bob to a few. Ring Bob. If I dont know what they could do, I will know someone I trust who does.

The big question is how do you remunerate the mentor? If it's expected to be free then we aren't going to get many people doing it. Current coop support is designed for a transactional exchange (you pay me to deliver a unit of advice) but we need relational exchange (ongoing developing relationships not 'sheep dip' in and out).

Its no secret that I have been very critical of what passed for support and advice in the Hub and now via the Hive. Clearly being designed by people who dont know how worker coops and small community coops work in practice. Much of that spend was wasted, water off a duck's back. But we did use the flexibility of the Hub to actually do what was needed in many cases ( ie not what what they told the assessor.)

Im not after CPD, I just want advice and support for worker coops that works. If I'm not able to be involved in the barefoot initiative I'll just carry on. But I would like to be. I think I first introduced the DAWN example of accredited barefoot practitioners to the UK from the US.

cheers

Uncle Bob

Hi everyone. The 2 barefoot practitioner workshops (Manchester and London) are looming and we have 15 participants in each. One issue which we want to address during this pilot is the relationship between existing CDBs and new entrants into the field. We're particularly interested in being able to express how many existing CDBs would be willing to take on barefoot practitioners as associates, apprentices or members, collaborative partners (if they are doing the work through their co-op) and what/if any terms and conditions would apply?

CBC have a long established associate process for people who want to be mentored by a more experienced CDB worker in their dealings with client coops and be a part of a campaigning organisation too. Associate subs are £10 per month as a contribution to CBC's minimal running costs.

Principle Six - yes.

Request for input.

As you are probably aware, Co-op Culture held two workshops recently at which members of worker co-operatives, who had expressed an interest, spent a day exploring their current co-operative development practice, how they might do it better and do more of it, and what were the barriers and opportunities around this "barefoot co-operative development".

The members of the participating worker co-operatives were very keen to get involved in all stages of co-operative development from inspiring people to create co-ops to peer to peer mentoring to actually delivering support.

In the new year, we'll be reporting the results of this process to all stakeholders, including CDB's. Several themes are emerging that certainly affect and could potentially involve existing CDB's directly. We'd like to include in the report, the reaction of those CDB's to these emerging themes and also the wider concept of Barefoot Co-operative Development. We are also exploring some of the ideas that have emerged with other partners, such as Co-operatives UK.

The form linked below, describes some of the emerging themes and we seek your initial thoughts, to factor them into the report and the suggestions for where we go with this.

https://goo.gl/forms/5S2jnsCHx4jPnHh53

Thank you to the 9 CDB's that have contributed so far. We'll be closing the form on Monday 15th January in order to give us time to analyse CDB feedback and include in the draft report. Please contribute before Monday if you haven't yet done so. We plan to circulate the draft report the week before the next CDB Forum meeting on the 12th February, at which we'll discuss the next possible steps.

Back from the dead! In an effort to provoke more action and potentially co-ordinate our activities regardingn Barefoot Co-op Develoment, I'd like to hold a "Fringe" meeting - an extended conversation - with CDBs who are interested in working with Barefoot Co-op Developers after the CDB Forum meeting. I am sure there will be somewhere we can grab a coffee or other beverage if the room needs to be cleared. I will also post this in the CDB Forum thread

I can’t get to Brum before the Saturday so will miss the CDB Forum, but am digesting Coop Culture’s paper on barefoots and will hopefully have Principle Six’s version ready in time

This is embarrasing...I thought I had sent this last week but here it is unsent! .....For your perusal, and in the spirit of open-ness, here is a working paper on how Co-op Culture is/planning to work with barefoot co-op developers. It's an agile process, we are learning and so the paper is a work in progress and does not go into the detail of insurance etc which will be dealt with at contracting stage. We aren't suggesting any other CDB takes this approach and welcome a plurality of offers to barefoot co-op developers.

For any CDBs who are interested in discussing how we can train up and/or integrate the next generation of co-op developers from barefoots, we will be holding a Zoom meeting on Tues 26th February at 10 a.m. We really hope someone from your CDB can participate if you are interested in working with barefoot coop developers. https://zoom.us/j/833356021

Thanks Nathan. I'll join if I can (but might have last minute prep to do for an AGM I'm chairing later in the day).

Ah, er, that's an interesting time. South West Co-op Support - that's SCS, Kabin, Co-op Futures and CAN - are having a meeting in Bristol at 11 that day. So a Zoom at 1000 is either really convenient, or really inconvenient, and I'm not sure which. I'll see if I can make it work, and then you'll get four of us for the price of one.

and me. I'll need a reminder

I'd like to come to this, the worker co-op solidfund initiative hit a stumbling block of time and organising, so nice to relook at this from another angle

Sorry, going to have to give my apologies now but am still very interested.

I am running a Principle Six event at exactly that time - otherwise would be there

Just a quick reminder that we have a Zoom session tomorrow at 10am to discuss how we as CDBs can integrate barefoot practitioners into our work and provide them with experience, skills, on the job training etc https://zoom.us/j/833356021

apologies if i dont make this, depends on wifi/mobile signal

CMS is interested in this but we all have other commitments this morning. Please keep us in the loop.

same for me sadly, something else has come up I can't get out of, do let me know how it goes.

Aaargh my apologies too, am faciltating a P6 even. I’m not doing very well here.

Some rudimentary notes about what was discussed. Although small in numbers, it was useful to tease out some key issues and agree some next steps

Once people are regular practitioners they could be invited into the whole CD Forum. I agree with @johnatherton that for some barefooters, the whole forum might be overload - a bit "all or nothing". I find it difficult to keep up and I am doing 40+ hours a week. Maybe consider it a "ladder of participation"?

Thanks for the Zoom notes and for keeping this alive. I would like to be a bit clearer about how people think this action thread relates to outcomes from the Solidfund-sponsored initiative, which is focused on worker coops and worker cooperation. This is my (and others) main concern; although there is obviously a general need to expand dev capacity, worker coop initiatives find it even harder to access startup support than other types of coop.

In response to @sionwhellens while I see the worker co-op sector as a primary source for barefoot co-op development workers both in the past and in the future, I feel that the development of training suitable for barefoot workers will probably need to be open to practitioners from across the co-op piste in order to be sustainable and certainly if we want it to be funded by the wider co-op (or even community business) sector. I think that the lack of funding for support for worker co-operatives is a separate issue to the creation of a training programme, although the predominance of barefoots from the worker co-op sector may help to improve the situation by osmosis.

Thanks Mark. Just want to be clear that this is a 'fork' in relation to the Solidfund initiative. I see it as being a bit like the worker coop skills training event programme that the Worker Coop Council designed (and, largely, ran - i.e. Rebecca at Seeds and others) a few years ago. It was successful in its own terms, then absorbed/adapted into a wider programme of coop trainings by Coops UK. I still think there is still potential demand for a focused worker coop thing.

It's one way we might do it. I'm happy to explore here and at Worker Co-op Weekend how we might satisfy the demand for a worker co-op focussed programme. At the moment the "big" money available to co-op development is targetted at all co-ops (or sectors within that - eg platform co-ops) or the community business sector that disfavours worker co-ops.

To be honest that is my view too, there are enough people knocking around with experience of community share issues / community co-ops, but there certainly aren't enough people who genuinely know how to advise on worker owned co-ops. But if to get external funding we are saying its for wider benefit but internally we know our goal is clear, then I have less of an issue.

This also relates to the strategic direction of SolidFund - will it ever be big enough to run a dedicated worker co-op support programme? How big would that need to be in terms of income? How might we get there? There was interest in direct funding (1% fund) from worker co-ops at the Barefoot workshops and one of the policy asks being posited in response to the Co-ops Unleashed report is corporation tax relief for co-ops supporting co-op development funding.

Exactly Mark. I guess the investment in the worker coop barefoot events was that - an attempt to explore how we might satisfy the demand for a worker coop focused programme. Perhaps we need to reset and go a bit more onto the front foot, with some clear objectives.

I think SolidFund could be in a position to do this in a couple of years time if current rates of growth are maintained. We have over £15k to distribute this year and will have more next year because we are retaining half our income each year.

The key, assuming we want to do this, is to get to a point where we have enough money to entice a partner. Going to potential funders in or supportive of the co-operative movement and saying (for example) we have £20k to put into worker co-operative development each year, please can you match it up to £40k is a conversation with a great deal of potential.

I'm confused that there is a feeling thatthere aren't enough people to advise worker coops. I'd quite happily work solely with worker coops and never touch community coops but the work just isn't there. (caveat: I am referring to paid work not pro bono)

Perhaps this is a bit of chicken and egg? If there aren't many people who "genuinely know how to advise on worker owned co-ops", and those that are around are quite well hidden, given the near-zero coverage given to the model, then the number of would-be worker co-ops approaching people like Nathan will necessarily be very low. Which is not the same thing in my view as there not being any demand. In my view there probably is demand, although much of it is latent, i.e. if people were more aware of the possibility, and how they might access information, advice, funding and support, then we'd probably see a lot more visible demand.
I think most of us would agree that if we wanted to double (or preferably more) the size of the worker co-op sector in the next 12 months, we wouldn't start here. The challenge, in my view, is to understand where we would start, and what we'd do in order to achieve that goal. If that work has already been done let's look at it.
I'd say that having more people with the basic skillset (and the confidence to use it) is part of the solution, but only part.

I'm very much up for Platform 6 playing a leading role in the barefoot coopdev initiative as it plays absolutely into our agenda of crowdsourcing expertise. Here’s info about Open Badges which I think could be the way forward in terms of accrediting barefootists (and others). https://openbadges.org/about/ I'm looking at how we build this in to our platform.

I think that openbadges look great - well worth exploring

open badges, theres a worker coop developing these in the uk. sorry cant remember who. came to WCW a couple of years ago. John Atherton might know.

yes they are democratising training and development

Yes. They are called 'We Are Open'. I'm in communication.

I've just emailed all those who attended the Barefoot workshops (or expressed interest in doing so) to ask them if they would like to join this Loomio group. Watch this space.

Hey, I was a participant on the Barefoot workshops and have already been part of the co-operative development forum loomio. I've been actively pursuing trying to get some more direct experience within the co-operative development sector, particularly in supporting worker co-ops, in the hope of becoming a practitioner. Energies being invested by existing CD people is very much appreciated toward encouraging new practitioners, but as already outlined above it does seem like further resourcing is required to create a clearer pathway/training/resources - utilising Solid Fund resources, either independently or with a partner seems like a good way forward (perhaps some funding for some initial design work ahead of reaching out to possible partners?). I think Graham has made good points about the need to develop new practitioners alongside a strategy creating/incentivising more worker co-operatives and this also needing to be tied to this work. Happy to be involved as a keen would-be practitioner in helping push these ideas forward :)

Cheers @joshualawson1 One thing that would be good to know is what you need in order to feel confident and competent to deliver face to face co-op development support. We're currently looking at developing training and steer on content and method of delivery would be particularly useful feedback from potential barefoot practitioners.

an important area is consultation skills. what questions to ask at different stages of interaction and how to ask them.

i think this is the biggest obstacle to skilled and knowledgeable cooperators 'going into' other coops as advisors. its scary until you are experienced.

there are great 'how to' do consultation books and videos for GPs. lots of which is relevant to coop doctors too. i can look them up. my other half trains GPs in consultation skills.

previously practitioner training has concentrated on the 'what' and nowhere near enough on the 'how'.

if youre experienced you have probably tried to forget how you learned (oh god i remember my crass attempts).
and you wont know where the holes are in your competence from OTJ training (on the job) or CA (copy annie aka apprenticeship)

glad this is being revived and hopefully this time around it wont be stuffed into an accreditation straitjacket but developed for needs.

ciao

bob

More direct/practical experience - delivering sessions alongside/partnered with a more experienced practitioner would be a big help. Also resources that outline the various areas where support may be needed, legal, membership etc, would also be a great help in framing the scope of the work and provide greater clarity for upcoming barefooters to see what further skills they might need. Happy to provide more detailed or specific feedback into the development work :)

Thanks for the heads up from @martinmeteyard on this excellent podast from Geo Collective. Speaks directly to the conversation here. Driving our movement with P2P learning

There's also a transcript of the podcast which you can skim through if you don't have time to listen to the whole thing.

So keen to hear an update from Barefoot Co-op Development if possible. Any helicopter views, how the last two years have faired for co-op development in your experiences etc. What Barefoot's next steps could be - this and more would be really interesting. thanks.

Hi Irena, Principle Six has been working with three alumni from the last Barefoots cohort, and someone I advised is applying to the programme after next, so very positive!

@Irena P there is a recent update on our website, including a downloadable report. Latest news is that we have just started Barefoot 2.0 with 16 new people and are looking to start Barefoot 3.0 in the new year. Exciting times!

If anyone is interested in working with any of our new exciting cohort - allowing them to sit in on support meetings etc., then please do get in touch.

@Irena P In addition to the update on our website, new CDB People Support Co-op is registered and trading (including referalls and contracts from Co-op Culture), one other is in the process of registration and a third is under discussion. We have established a reference group and will be reviewing the strategy for Barefoot's future including stewardship and growth potential. We are also whitelabelling the programme so that it can be picked up and delivered by other co-operative development practitioners including in other countries with different trading and legal environments.

I'm so glad I asked, this IS exciting...

Thank you for your email. I work part-time, on different days each week, so I may not be able to attend to your email immediately.
I will contact you as soon as possible on my return. If your query is urgent please don't hesitate to contact me on my mobile (07903 932 214).

Mark thanks for the link - can you resend the link to the previous loomino board that had all the recordings on please - my laptop died and now have a new one so putting everything back online so I can access, Plus did you mention a certificate of completion - I may have missed the email
Thanks
Carole

Will do Carole

Thank you for your email. I work part-time, on different days each week, so I may not be able to attend to your email immediately.
I will contact you as soon as possible on my return. If your query is urgent please don't hesitate to contact me on my mobile (07903 932 214).

Thank you for your email. I work part-time, on different days each week, so I may not be able to attend to your email immediately.
I will contact you as soon as possible on my return. If your query is urgent please don't hesitate to contact me on my mobile (07903 932 214).

Further to this, I'm unable to add Barefoots yet as the Loomio plan for the CD Forum has lapsed. This was a special deal negotiated between Loomio and Co-operatives UK - I've raised it with @Petra Morris