Loomio
Mon 4 Jul 2016 8:33AM

diaspora* statement

B blume Public Seen by 49

Hello everybody,

my english isn't that good, so I will write this post in german first, so my german-speaking friends may be able to explain points in the later discussion in english which i can't.

In letzter Zeit habe ich das Gefühl, dass immer mehr Menschen zu diaspora* kommen. Das freut mich prinzipiell ersteinmal. Leider ist es so, dass einige Menschen über youtube-Werbevideos auf diaspora* aufmerksam werden, welche diaspora* als Raum der "freien Meinungsäußerung" und "ohne Zensur" betiteln. Das ganze geschieht in einem Kontext, welcher an Verschwörungstheorien denken lässt.

Besagte Person, welche diese Videos erstellt, erstellt zudem Videos, welche sich abwertend und diskriminierend über Feministen, Islamisten und Anti-Rassismus-Aktivisten äußern. Auch die erstellten Posts bei diaspora* gehen in diese Richtung. Die Menschen, die dem Aufruf dieser Menschen folgen, haben demnach wohl ähnliche Ansichten.

diaspora* stellt für mich einen Ort dar, der aufgrund seiner Dezentralität und der damit verbundenen Möglichkeit, eigene Pods zu erstellen, natürlich ersteinmal ohne "Zensur" auskommt, und diese auch nicht durchführen kann. Aber gerade deswegen denke ich, liegt es in der Verantwortung der User_innen, freundlich und respektvoll miteinander umzugehen. An dieser Stelle möchte ich das ständige Motto des c3 zitieren "Be excellent to each other"!
Ich habe Angst davor, dass diaspora* zu einem Ort wird, bei dem jede_r "tun und lassen kann, was sie/er will", und dies auch medial und in der Öffentlichkeit so wahrgenommen wird - als ein Ort, an dem trolling, hatespeech, Diskriminierung und shitstorm ungehindert auftreten können. Denn diaspora* ist für mich eigentlich etwas ganz anderes! Und das kann es meiner Meinung auch sein, wenn wir uns respektvoll begegnen - "Be excellent to each other"!
Wie aber könnte soetwas in die Praxis umgesetzt werden? Der c3 als Club hat auf seiner Internetseite folgendes Statement stehen: Wir sind eine galaktische Gemeinschaft von Lebewesen, unabhängig von Alter, Geschlecht und Abstammung sowie gesellschaftlicher Stellung, offen für alle mit neuen Ideen. Wer jedoch mit Ideen von Rassismus, Ausgrenzung und damit verbundener struktureller und körperlicher Gewalt auf uns zukommt, hat sich vom Dialog verabschiedet und ist jenseits der Akzeptanzgrenze. Wer es darauf anlegt, das Zusammenleben in dieser Gesellschaft zu zerstören und auf eine alternative Gesellschaft hinarbeitet, deren Grundsätze auf Chauvinismus und Nationalismus beruht, arbeitet gegen die moralischen Grundsätze, die uns als Club verbinden.

diaspora* ist kein Club, und kann dementsprechend Menschen nicht ausschließen und kein Verhalten vorschreiben. Aber diaspora* kann meiner Ansicht nach Stellung beziehen - und jede_r einzelne Podbetreiber_in kann das für ihren/seinen eigenen Pod tun. Die Idee ist, auf der Anmeldeseite der einzelnen Pods, auf der diaspora*-Seite und vll auch (das wäre mein Favorit) in der Seitenleiste meines eigenen Streams (wo auch "Begrüße neue Nutzer" oder "Benötigst du Hilfe?" steht) einen Text zu stellen, der das wünschenswerte Verhalten der diaspora*-Nutzer_innen beschreibt. Gerne in Anlehnung an das c3 Statement.
Damit würde sich diaspora* klar positionieren - ohne zu sanktionieren (das bleibt den einzelnen Pod-Betreiber_innen überlassen). diaspora* kann somit in der Öffentlichkeit zeigen, dass es für einen respektvollen Umgang miteinander steht, und sich diesen auch von seinen Nutzer_innen wünscht. Menschen, die gegen diesen Wunsch handeln, werden nicht ausgeschlossen, aber würden bei jeder Anmeldung (oder sogar ständig durch die Seitenleiste neben dem Stream) darauf hingewiesen, dass ihr Verhalten dem nicht entspricht.

Um Elie Wiesel zu zitieren: "Man muss Partei ergreifen. Neutralität hilft dem Unterdrücker, niemals dem Opfer. Stillschweigen bestärkt den Peiniger, niemals den Gepeinigten.".

Ich würde mich über eure Meinung zu dem Thema freuen.
Be excellent to each other!

blume

Lately I get the feeling there are more and more new people on diaspora*. First of all: that's great! But some of them had known about diaspora* because of youtube-advertisments made by people, who describe diaspora* as a place with freedom of speech and without censorship. All of this in a context reminding of conspiracy theories.

Besides, the person making these videos is also making videos about feminists, islamists and anti-racism-activists in a discriminatory way. Even his posts on diaspora* have the same intention. People following his youtube-advertisment or his invitations may have similar opinions.

diaspora* is a place with no censorship because of its decentralized structure and the possibility to have your own pod. That are reasons why we need a friendly and respectful behavior in our interaction. To quote the c3: "Be excellent to each other"!
I'm afraid, diaspora* i becoming a place everybodys just doing what they want with trolling, hatespeech, discrimination and shitstorms, and that this is the picture the public will have of it. But for me, diaspora* is very different from that! And in my opinion, it can stay that way if we behave in a kind way - "Be excellent to each other"!
What does that mean for diaspora*? On its website the c3 has this following statement: We're a galactic community of beings, disparate in age, gender, origin or social status, open to everybody with new ideas. However those approaching us with ideas of racism, marginalization and the connected structural and physical violence, are disengaged from any dialog and are beyond any level of acceptance. Those aiming to destroy the coexistence in this society, who work towards an alternative society based on chauvinism and nationalism, are working against the moral principles that unites our club. (thanks to @jhass for translating).

diaspora* is no club. It can't exclude people or dictade a specific behavior. But it can make a statement! And so can the people hosting a pod. Maybe a statement can be shown on the sign in page or the landing page. Or even next to the stream (wehre the #newhere instruction stands). This statement could include the preferable behavior at diaspora* maybe following the c3 statement. Doing this diaspora* would make a point without penalilty. No one will be excluded because of not behaving this way. But it's seen every time the person is on diaspora* that it's behavior is not wanted.

To quote Elie Wiesel: “We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

I would like to here your opinions about this.
Be excellent to each other!

blume

T

theradialactive Mon 4 Jul 2016 9:43AM

I would like to see something like that. Maybe on the homepage. Maybe implemented in the code like blume said.

At first it has a social dimension: People who are joining the network see, that diaspora wants to be a place for respectful discussion and that anybody can join it.

From a branding standpoint it's even better: If diaspora changes (in the public eye) to something we don't want (because of it's userbase), we always can point to the "Be excellent to each other" manifesto (there might be a better word for that) and differenciate between the project diaspora and the diaspora userbase that shape discussions on the network.

And the idea is great because the manifesto does not dictate how to deal with those unrespectful behavior. That is in the hand of the podmin. So it respects the rights of everyone, but sets a statement.

RF

Rasmus Fuhse Mon 4 Jul 2016 10:46AM

People who do bad always think they're devoted to the good. I doubt that such a disclaimer will stop people to rethink what they are doing in any way. But still such a disclaimer could be helpful for marketing reasons to position our network as an open and tolerant community.

M

Monkeymind Mon 4 Jul 2016 11:33AM

I like this a lot. It may not deter racists, sexists and other assorted chauvinists, but it will give the rest of us something to work from when confronting them.

Also, everything @theradialactive and @rasmusfuhse said.

M

Miko Mon 4 Jul 2016 1:20PM

Hi, blume! That's an interesting marketing/ public relations idea,
as Rasmuss emphasized, people most commonly are convinced their doings are in a sense on the "good" side.

I didn't recognize that at all, and didn't last time, when one on a Suisse pod was getting stalked and black mailed... Thank you for the action taking and consciousness.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Mon 4 Jul 2016 7:15PM

Let me talk about two related issues that we – as a project – are already dealing with before coming back to your ideas.

  1. We already have a code of conduct for all communication channels that we (= the project) are in control of. This applies especially to the github repo and this Loomio group but it has no effect on the network itself as long as your actions aren't related to your work inside of the project. (Like using the diaspora hq account or representing the project in any other way)

  2. About two years ago we had some ISIS supporters who joined the network and used diaspora* for their propaganda.There are also two blogposts about that issue: [1] [2] In these blogposts we pointed out that because of the design of the network as a distributed system we are unable to enforce rules for the whole network. At the same time we were keeping track of active ISIS accounts, talked to their podmins and almost all accounts have been removed within a few hours.

Now back to your ideas. As I already pointed out the project is unable to enforce rules for the network. But what we can (and in my opinion also should) do is to speak in public about our vision of a well-working network and community and about the kind of behavior that we would like to encourage. This could be done with a new blogpost and maybe could also be part of the information about the project on our website.

I also really like the phrase "be excellent to each other" and I'd like to see that next to the invitation to welcome new users in the sidebar. (Like “Follow #newhere and welcome new users to diaspora*! Be excellent to each other!”) From a UX point of view I'd like to avoid having a lot of text in the sidebar so I'm not sure about having the whole statement there. We also have a link to the terms of service on the login page and in the sidebar and I don't think that there are a lot of users reading something like that.

So all in all I'd like to see a blogpost + a statement on our website and the phrase "be excellent to each other" in the sidebar. (for now)

G

goob Wed 6 Jul 2016 8:40PM

So all in all I'd like to see a blogpost + a statement on our website and the phrase "be excellent to each other" in the sidebar. (for now)

With an image?

Bill and Ted

FT

Frank TumbleWeed Wed 6 Jul 2016 4:16PM

I'm impressed by the way this subject is dicussed here and like the idea of Steffen van Bergerem.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Sun 17 Jul 2016 10:46PM

We added “Be excellent to each other” to the sidebar: https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/pull/6914.

Suggestions for the statement are highly appreciated.

M

Milan* Tue 19 Jul 2016 8:19AM

I still think it's useful to add a motd feature with this message as an example. (Disabled by default so the individual podmin is free to decide) [1] [2]
Also i still think, that the current message is way more beautiful when it's centered.

B

blume Sat 27 Aug 2016 12:18PM

We wrote a statement for diaspora* - here it is:

diaspora* - statement

diaspora* provides all kind of creatures - regardless of age, bodysize, disability, ethnicity, gender identity, expression, level of experience, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, sexual identity, or orientation - the opportunity to connect in a decentralized social network. To give all of us the best possible time on diaspora*, we envision a respectful interaction. As the diaspora* community, we stand together against any kind of discrimination and exclusion. We don't except posts based on principles of chauvinism and nationalism. We disaprove racist remarks and downplaying of historic and current fascist violence. We oppose any kind of exclusion and the related structural and physical violence.

diaspora*'s idea of a decentralized network allows no banning of members. Ever more important for diaspora* to live on is a considerate interaction based on the ideals of the diaspora*-community.
Be excellent to each other and stay calm.

How to do this?
- Using welcoming and inclusive language
- Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
- Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
- Showing empathy towards other community members
- Don't use sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances
- Don't troll, post insulting/derogatory comments, and don't do personal or political attacks
- No public or private harassment

CS

Comrade Senya Sat 27 Aug 2016 12:42PM

Where is it gonna be published?

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Tue 30 Aug 2016 12:32AM

I think publishing it as a blog post would be great. Afterwards we could use the text "Be excellent to each other" in the sidebar to link to the blog post.

BW

Birch Wind Thu 15 Sep 2016 7:34PM

'I would switch that to read 'Stay calm, and be excellent to each other' ;)

B

blume Sat 27 Aug 2016 1:16PM

Also: Give people the benefit of the doubt. You might be interpreting the wrong way!

CS

Comrade Senya Tue 30 Aug 2016 9:15AM

I'm thinking of translation. The statement requires it. Maybe if we
publish it on the foundation website, we can then reuse webtranslate.it
for translation of the statement?

B

blume Tue 30 Aug 2016 12:14PM

Transaltions would be great! I'd love to see the statement on the registration-side from every pod. So new users directly get in contact with the terms of behavior (i mean the statement ;) ). But this is not on me to decide.

CS

Comrade Senya Tue 30 Aug 2016 12:28PM

You can rise voting on this proposal in this thread on loomio. However,
placement of the statement to the pod software would mean that podmins
are able to alter the text on their own.

B

blume Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:00AM

This is the actual statement:

diaspora* - statement

diaspora* provides all kind of creatures - regardless of age, bodysize, disability, ethnicity, gender identity, expression, level of experience, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, sexual identity, or orientation - the opportunity to connect in a decentralized social network. To give all of us the best possible time on diaspora*, we envision a respectful interaction. As the diaspora* community, we stand together against any kind of discrimination and exclusion. We don't except posts based on principles of chauvinism and nationalism. We disaprove racist remarks and downplaying of historic and current fascist violence. We oppose any kind of exclusion and the related structural and physical violence.

diaspora*'s idea of a decentralized network allows no banning of members. Ever more important for diaspora* to live on is a considerate interaction based on the ideals of the diaspora*-community.
Be excellent to each other and stay calm.

How to do this?

  • Using welcoming and inclusive language
  • Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
  • Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
  • Showing empathy towards other community members
  • Don't use sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or advances
  • Don't troll, post insulting/derogatory comments, and don't do personal or political attacks
  • No public or private harassment
  • Give people the benefit of the doubt. You might be interpreting the wrong way!
B

Poll Created Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:02AM

diaspora\* statement Closed Thu 8 Sep 2016 6:02PM

Outcome
by blume Tue 25 Apr 2017 5:21AM

publishing statement as discussed :heart:

we're goining to publish the diaspora* statement as a blog post also using the text "Be excellent to each other" in the sidebar to link to the blog post.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 90.5% 19 JH G RF DS E T R SVB W FT TH FT C M B T L S DTF
Abstain 4.8% 1 F
Disagree 4.8% 1 CS
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 32 ST FS JR PP BB S AS R JD PP J NV BC M RS- MB PG IGM RD V

21 of 53 people have voted (39%)

CS

Comrade Senya
Disagree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:39AM

I'd like the statement in diaspora to be linked to some diasporafoundation.org page instead, to provide translatability

CS

Comrade Senya
Disagree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:39AM

I'd like the statement in diaspora to be linked to some diasporafoundation.org page instead, to provide translatability via webtraslateit

T

tobi
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 10:33AM

  • Text is great for aforesaid reasons
  • show it on the sign up page
  • The "Excellent"-sentence should provide a link to the text.
L

LasseGismo
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 11:15AM

I totally agree with but pls. remind of "kisas" (KeepItSimpleAndStupid).
A more catchy view of the statement at the left frame, a bold or bigger font or any kind of picture and the statement as link to the blog post.
That's what I'd like to see.

T

theradialactive
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 11:35AM

I hope it gets translated.

C

CSammy
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 11:57AM

I'd prefer the list to be open, to suggest that it might not cover every aspect. Right now it looks as if it was complete, which it never can be. Other than that, I love this.

DS

Dennis Schubert
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 12:50PM

Yes.

TH

Till Hülsemann
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 1:49PM

Great idea! If I don't forget, I will write a more detailed statement later on.

S

Skull
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 3:11PM

i might sometimes not be excellent myself, but i'll try.

E

Elm
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 3:47PM

Agreed because it would make people who would set up a pod to have that text linked even it is a pod where people intend not to respect some of that statement (unless thay fork and change that ih the source...)

G

goob
Agree
Thu 1 Sep 2016 4:00PM

Yes to the idea of having a statement and yes to the general approach here. I'd like to make some suggestions for improvement before it's implemented. For one thing, is the slogan 'Be excellent to each other' copyrighted?

F

Flaburgan Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:07AM

I'm not a big fan of lists, because you always forget someone. I would stay with a generic "Every human beings" or something like that.

B

blume Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:17AM

We need to list all of this to see all of this. Not listing makes it invisible. And that is exactly what I dont want! If we forget someone or someon feels not listet - just tell and it will be added.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Thu 1 Sep 2016 8:09AM

The first sentence is derived from our code of conduct and I think some small errors happened while copying that part so I'd like to fix those:

before:

diaspora* provides all kind of creatures - regardless of age, bodysize, disability, ethnicity, gender identity, expression, level of experience, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, sexual identity, or orientation - the opportunity to connect in a decentralized social network.

after:

diaspora* provides all kind of creatures - regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, gender identity and expression, level of experience, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation - the opportunity to connect in a decentralized social network.

I'd consider this a minor edit that doesn't affect the proposal.

JH

Jonne Haß Thu 1 Sep 2016 9:41AM

@comradesenya this is to get an initial baseline out that everybody can agree on. We have loose plans for a second proposal to either do what you suggest or what @blume suggested above, embedding it into diaspora, depending on where further discussion after this leads.

T

tobi Thu 1 Sep 2016 10:29AM

I like the idea of the statement and the text itself. I also support the idea to show it on the signup page. While on the other hand I doubt a lot of people would recognize it appropriately. Actually I think that sentence "Be excellent to each other" is great enough to arouse the curious user's interest. So directing the user to the text through a link (instead of showing the text itself) could do us a great favor.

CS

Comrade Senya Thu 1 Sep 2016 3:09PM

@jhass I completely support the idea of putting the statement linked with "Be excellent" text. If it what is voting about, then I agree. However the voting says "link to the blogpost" which I'm not sure I agree with. My "no" voice still doesn't disallow the proposal to pass, so I think I can leave it as is for now.

E

Elm Thu 1 Sep 2016 3:48PM

Hi, by curiosity I watched the "be excellent film" and well, I would not really advise it because I did'nt like it…

MP

Mike Powell Sat 10 Sep 2016 7:12PM

Oh. Too late. The vote is closed. I'm again this statement, cause it's created in time time, as the ccc published their statement. Now it's just a hype and as I saw a lot people are hyping the statement but they don't live this statement. Some are trolling in the background or send other user to troll. User says be excellent and mean only their own bubble. If other people are in a dirty discussion, then they say nothing. For me it's just a hype and will be forget.

B

Poll Created Sat 10 Sep 2016 9:03PM

d* statement Closed Sat 10 Sep 2016 9:04PM

publish the statement as discussed

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 0% 0  
Abstain 0% 0  
Disagree 0% 0  
Block 0% 0  
Undecided 0% 40 ST FS JH JR F PP BB RF DS E S AS R JD PP J NV BC M RS-

0 of 40 people have voted (0%)